LotR22 - Insane Izzy

[Arathorn]

Roster:
Arathorn
LKendter -- UP NOW (SKIP Feb. 17 - Feb. 21)
Jabah -- on deck
Kylearan
MadDogTrebonius

10 turns each from here on out.

Moscow archer->settler. Send archer to Cordoba. Send Cordoba's warrior to Seville. Moscow grows to 7.

I'm hoping this means Madrid.... We're not allowed to own Moscow at this point.

As long as Peter isn't in Organized Religion, it's not a worry, really. We do need to make sure Seville is TOTR'd, sooner rather than later, though.

I see two more potential city sites. The hill on the inland lake (incense is worth it, and it has a number of other reasonably good tiles) and the desert to the NW between the sheep and silk. Both these cities should be founded with missionary already present, to spread TOTR immediately. Chopping the forest on the hill to the south should be done before settling. Those hammers won't be insignificant for Madrid/Barcelona, whichever is closer. Not huge but well worth the effort, I believe.

Interesting times lay ahead....

Arathorn

 

[PeeDub]

Madrid, Moscow, they're both in Europe ... </StupidAmerican>

 

[PeeDub]

PS - Looking at the first picture, the Incense is not within the 21squares of any japanese city. I still think we should build the 'hill on the inside sea' city, as last to have a outpost there to :
1. avoid wrong religion spreading straigth to Madrid
2. in case of war have a much more defendable position (bottleneck)

I'm not so sure of that. We haven't seen that tile since Japan's cities expanded, and you just don't get that 2-wide cultural boundary like that. I'm betting it's already Japanese, and wresting it away from them will be a nice little cultural battle.

 

[Arathorn]

I think it inordinately likely we'll have to go to war with Toku at some point in the future. While some of his cities may join TOTR, signing OB with him is always difficult, so it's unlikely all his cities will follow TOTR. Having a nice bottleneck defense spot, with a city on a hill, to slow his horde of units, seems very nice to me. A cultural battle isn't all bad. We start well, with an obelisk already present. TOTR provides another and a cheap temple a third. We can probably win culture wars. Plus, we don't want to waste all that space. I still argue for founding it.

Arathorn

 

[PeeDub]

I'm not arguing against founding it. In fact I think we should be prepared to
HOLY WA-A-A-A-A-A-R-R-R-R
with Toku sooner rather than later. I do think we have a need for another city immediately, either to help take control of the bronze near St. Pete, or for a bottleneck like you said. I just don't think we're going to be able to waltz down there and take the incense uncontested.

Corrolary Question: We're allowed to keep cities sans religion, si?

 

[Arathorn]

Corrolary Question: We're allowed to keep cities sans religion, si?

Good question...and not covered in my initial rules, I believe.

Cities with only TOTR: Must not attack.
Cities with any religion but TOTR (even if they have TOTR, too): Must be razed
Cities without any religion: Anything goes -- can raze, can capture, can ignore. EVENTUALLY, they have to be TOTR-compliant, but that's an endgame situation and can be done in many ways

Arathorn

 

[PeeDub]

It would seem, then, that close-bordered, xenophobic Toku might present an interesting empire-building opportunity.

 

[LKendter]

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/LotR22AD-0001.zip


200 BC
I put a workboat in the queue at Seville before the barracks. I would like to start mapping out the coastlines.


160 BC
(IT) Priesthood is completed. I would really like to build galleys, and start on sailing next.
This was the ugly turn for religion. Napoleon is now Jewish. Tokugawa went with Buddhism just before TOTR spread to Tokyo.


120 BC
I really fear trash religion in the southern city spot I am heading to so I whip a missionary. The only reason I am doing this is the nature of the variant.
Barcelona has a barracks whipped, as we need to start building more troops.


100 BC
(IT) We get a break as Moscow now practices TOTR.


60 BC
(IT) I can believe how well TOTR religion is spreading, as Berlin knows about it.


40 BC
Now that the missionary has arrived, Toledo is formed in the south on a hill. It already practices TOTR.


20 BC
(IT) Well I thought we had a chance at just 15 turns when I started, but the Oracle has already been built.

==========================

Summary:
No beakers are invested yet in horseback riding. With us lacking metal horse archers are looking real appealing.

The missionary being built needs to get to Seville to reduce the risk of it getting polluted.

We don't have a great city outside of Madrid, but do we want the Great Lighthouse? I hate to pollute our prophet points.

Signed up:
Arathorn
LKendter (skip Feb 17 to Feb 21)
Jabah (currently playing)
Kylearan (on deck)
MadDogTrebonius


Win target: Meaningless until we get religious purity.

 

[Jabah]

I really can't play before satursday night and that is being optimistic....

If Kylearan want/can swap for this turn, that would be better for the SG progress.

Jabah

(I will be able to check discussion until later today, but won't on Satursday until very late)

 

[Kylearan]

Okay, got it!

 

[Kylearan]

I switch research from Horseback Riding to Writing. I think we need libraries more, and will have war elephants anyway rather sooner than later.

I ponder about the great lighthouse for a long time...we have a lot of coastal cities, so it would benefit us greatly. However, it's already AD times, the AIs have lots of coastal cities as well, and tend to build it early. Additionally, I think we need to build some missionaries at this point, so I decide against it and queue up a missionary in Madrid instead.

Toledo is switched from barracks to lighthouse, to help growth in the future.

The lost oracle netted us 91 gold, which I've used for some deficit research. After Writing, I pondered Metal Casting next, for the Colossus. But we will soon have a very nice source of income anyway, namely the TOTR shrine, so I set us on Mathematics instead. This brings us nearer to Currency, and Construction for war elephants.

TOTR overtook one of our missionaries on his way to Seville, so he went to Lyons instead and spread it there. Before, Napoleon wouldn't switch to TOTR because "not enough people believe in TOTR". Now it's only "we just don't like you enough", so I think we can convert him. Another missionary is on his way into his lands.

But even better, TOTR has spread on its own to Osaka, and Toku converted! I've never seen a religion spread so aggressively on its own before. We don't even have the shrine yet!


Now Madrid can have its library whipped, at the cost of 3 pop. I'd do it, but didn't want to decide that on my own on my last turn.
I would also whip the lighthouse in Cordoba (can you tell I'm a fan of whipping? ).

I think it's also time for another settler for the northwest.

-Kylearan

 

[Jabah]

He Kylearan, that is too fast.. I still can't play before Satursday night

If MadDogTrebonius wants to play it before me....

Jabah

 

[Kylearan]

He Kylearan, that is too fast..

Sorry, but I just had time to play...

 

[LKendter]

He Kylearan, that is too fast.. I still can't play before Saturday night

If MadDogTrebonius wants to play it before me....

Jabah

Well this is Arathorn's call, but at least in the LK series I prefer skips over a double swap. It just makes the roster to confusing when players are moved around this far.

 

[Arathorn]

I wish I knew how certain that "Saturday night at the earliest" was. I think, though, that skipping Jabah will be best. With this crew, we can quite possibly have the game around to him (or close) by then, anyway.

Let's go with...

Roster:
Arathorn -- on deck
LKendter (SKIP Feb. 17 - Feb. 21)
Jabah
Kylearan
MadDogTrebonius -- UP NOW

I hope that's not ruffling any feathers. I just think it'll be better for continuing the smooth progression of the game.

Arathorn

 

[PeeDub]

I'll wait until Jabah says he can't play in his time frame, if it's OK with everyone else.

 

[Jabah]

I have no problem being skipped, I am going away tomorrow and will probably be too tired after driving 3 hours back at 'I don't know yet' time...
And I am away again Sunday, so don't wait for me.
If by miracle, I can play tomorrow, I will then try to finish my RBAdv#4... instead of SG.

Jabah

 

[PeeDub]

OK, got it.

 

[PeeDub]

200 AD (0)
Drop research to 60%, as we had 1 gold left and were running deficit at -9. This gives us +5 surplus to build up a *little* treasury.
Accentuate growth in Madrid until it hits 8, then will focus on production for library and temple.
Switch Barca to granary to help with whipping. Will whip it next turn.
Whip lighthouse in Cordoba. Accentuate food of course until up to 2 again, then will work the gems again.
Toledo needs a farm, but could also benefit from whipping a lighthouse. Will do that in about 5 turns, when it grows.
Opened borders with Frederick. He's also got stone for trade, which would be useful if we decide to build something like Angkor Wat or the Spiral Minaret. A fine zealotous nation such as ours should be planning on these things.

210 AD (1)
We're the most cultured. Ho hum.

Freddie comes offering stone for ivory. I don't want to give him ivory, so I try one of our health items, since we don't need it that badly, but he won't go for it. So I don't make a trade.
Whip granary in Barca.
Cordoba lighthouse->missionary. Start working gems again, and stop emphasizing food.
Peter adopts Organized Religion.

I think we need to send another missionary or two down to Toku to get him to open up and begin trading with us.

220 AD (2)
Barca granary->library. I think we can use another whip next turn.

230 AD (3)
Zzzz

240 AD (4)
Discover Math. Begin Currency since I don't see an immediate benefit to Construction, and Currency->Construction should be faster than Construction->Currency.
Up science to 70%, since we break even there and we've built up a treasury of 23.
Madrid grows to 8, so I focus on production.
Still can't whip in Barca, as I'm guessing 2 citizens aren't enough to build the library. We only have one hammer here.

250 AD (5)
Russia is sending a galley with settler somewhere to our west.

I debate closing borders with him to keep the settler away, and since he likes us a lot and is the bottom civ, I decide to. This may have been on my part. We don't take a negative hit for this action, since it wasn't another civ asking us to do it, and we'd had well over 10 turns of this deal. This protects two city sites. The NW one on our continent, and the one-tile island crab fishing village. Our warrior is now stranded on the peninsula.

 

[PeeDub]

260 AD (6)
Zzzz

270 AD (7)
After mapping out the French territory, I decide our best bang for the buck is to spread TOTR in Paris, even though it's already partially Jewish, especially if what we're trying to do here is get France to switch to TOTR.
Here's France's territory:

I've also been mapping out Germany:

And for completeness, here's us and Russia:

Barca whips library. This is going to make unhappy people for 24 turns, but I think it's the best use of the city.
Toledo whips lighthouse. I think this is the last whip here that makes sense, since it's not exactly food-rich.
Nappy still won't convert to Hinduism. It may take another missionary.

280 AD (8)
Barcelona library->settler. This is a good production item for a high food city that can't whip anything. For a while, anyway.
Oh, snap! Nappy converts to Hinduism anyway!

I think our next missionary (after the one for our new city) should go to Toku. Uh, if he opens borders, that is. :shakehead
There's an island north of Freddie. I think it's really time to make another territory push.

290 AD (9)
Start chopping grassland forest at Seville. We need food here (though I'm going to build a cottage) and the production won't hurt.

300 AD (10)
Seville library->archer for new city protection.
Barca expands and we now have copper! And dyes!

Overview: We have (or will have) libraries in the cities that matter. Currency is due in 14. So our science is on the uptick. Everyone except for Washington and Mao are Hindu, so good job on that aspect. Construction is likely to follow, so we're close to ready to start "convincing" the heretics. If we can get two quick cities out (or more. there's another northern site in Russian lands), it's the right time to do it. Here's the demographics:

We're 2nd in GNP, food, pop, and trade, so we're doing well with limited land (5th). If we push expansion now, we can really take advantage of it.

Oh! And we're 8 turns from the shrine.