Lots of reading, still failing.

[darkangelx]

I have been reading these threads for days, strats etc.

Could someone be so kind as to provide a save with 3 cities or just pictures of what a CE and SE would look like early in the game.(Wealth, science, mil) I guess i need pictures. If I have missed it somewhere, please, kindly respond with the link location, flame free.


Also, for the main city, should it focus on money or research or both? I am trying to win on prince or above.

 

[Sjaramei]

3 cities is a bit early to give a good view of a CE at least. (i suck with SE so don't try to get answers with that from me)

I usually use my capital as commerce/science city early on (when you get Bureaucracy it really shines) and mainly cottage up lots there.

It's quite simple really, just loads of micromanagement.

Max growth to happiness cap then work all cottage squares possible.
It all depends on city placement, you should post a save instead so we can see if there are anything wrong at all

Also, for the main city, should it focus on money or research or both? I am trying to win on prince or above.

Money and research is the same mostly, spend all your money on research early on. (money converts into science with research slider)

 

[futurehermit]

I can post a game or pics later, but for now a few tips.

1) Your capital should get cottages and mines and be a mix of commerce and production in preparation for running bureaucracy.

2) Your first city should be plopped down next to horses or copper so you can defend yourself against barbarians and possibly rush a close neighbour. If the city is on a river and has lots of grasslands/floodplains (and especially if it has gold/gems/silver/calendar resources) then plan to make it a commerce city and cottage every tile except the odd (preferably none) plains hill. If the city has a good number of grassland/plains hills (and especially if it has a number of production resources including production food tiles--cows, wheat--AND if it has sufficient farmable tiles to work all those hills), then make it a production city. Remember that food is very important to any city and don't build a low-food city (ever if you can avoid it, but especially in the beginning).

3) If your 2nd city was a production city, then make your 3rd a commerce city, targeting a river with grasslands/floodplains and commerce specials. If your 2nd city was a commerce city, then make your 3rd city a production city, targeting a site with a good mix of farms and mines and production specials. Your commerce cities just grow and work cottages and build only granaries, libraries, etc. and cheap units when under hereditary rule to increase your to work more cottages. Your production cities only build barracks and then pump units non-stop. Get the heroic epic in your best production city as soon as you are able. You should have more commerce cities than production cities at a 2:1 or 3:1 ratio.

I wouldn't recommend running a SE on prince or below. It works ok on Monarch and gets better on emperor and higher. For a SE, you avoid cottages generally, except maybe in your capital and you build farms everywhere you can. Your #1 consideration for cities is surplus food. You get libraries build in your cities after unit production (for defense and possible first war) and run scientists off your surplus food. CoL is important for caste system to run more than 2 scientists and lightbulbing Phil is important for pacificism to speed up GS generation. Lit is very important for the GL which you want to (ideally) build in an enemy capital you conquered quite early, but if not then any high-food city will do.

 

[Sjaramei]

Here is my most recent game. (Emperor-Marathon-Elizabeth)

Around 10 AD i have a very good capitol (Pyramids/Great Library) and lots of mature cottages. The other two cities i founded are production mostly at the moment, but they are both coastal so i can switch to money when i need. (i'm building cottages around them soon)

I'm in the middle of expanding throughout the Roman empire. (just took Rome and sued for peace) So it looks very promising, kill/vassalize Rome and go after another is my game plan now.

It's a bit easier at marathon speed to micromanage cities properly so i don't know if this helps alot at normal speed, but you can at least see how my Hybrid Economy works, the cottages are the standard thingie for me. Representation and stuff is just a bonus (I could probably abuse this a bit better, but then i suck at SE so... )

(Edit: Haha, Augustus built the Parthenon for me! This is a sick start..!)

 

[Andorim]

. . . I wouldn't recommend running a SE on prince or below. It works ok on Monarch and gets better on emperor and higher. . .

Please explain this part.

 

[futurehermit]

The nice thing about running a SE is that you are lightbulbing a lot of tech. On higher levels the AI techs very fast, so you can trade your lightbulbed tech to keep pace with them.

On lower levels, the AI techs slowly, so you will be forced to self-research a lot of tech. Also, people who play on lower levels tend to be less skilled (not looking to offend anyone) and imo the CE is easier to manage (build cottages, click the emphasize commerce button: a bit oversimplistic, but not by much imo).

Fortunately, the pyramids are much easier to get on the lower levels, so if you WANT to run a SE on lower levels then that is the way to go. Representation-enhanced scientists are hands down the most powerful early-game economy and you will be self-teching quite nicely using them while lightbulbing techs as well.

On lower skill levels and going for SE I would recommend playing as an industrious leader and go for pyramids, parthenon, and great library. This combination will go a long way to giving you powerful research even at 0% science slider.

Don't forget to conquer territory though (see my sig)

 

[Mango]

The one thing that people who try to run SE forget to do is maximize GPP. That is the whole idea. You want to keep caste system, representation and pacifism as much as possible. Try to get the Pyramids in a production city because it's practically essential. Try to get the Parthenon as well. Don't be tempted to move your Great Scientists to other cities to spread out your research. I like to settle them in my science city rather than lightbulb or build academies (other than the one in the capital). On higher levels you have to lightbulb though because the AI teches no fast, but on Prince or lower you're okay with settling. The idea is to get your city up as large as possible and putting all of the extra workers as scientists. With the Parthenon, National Epic, Pacifism and a Philosophical leader you will be pushing 350% GPP, so every scientist will produce 9 GPP instead of 2. Throw in Representation and Oxford and you're producing massive amounts of research in that one city. The fastest I've ever teched was with Elizabeth on a coastal city running a specialist economy. You have to end the game faster than usual though because it won't last forever. Your GP will pop up fewer and further between and you won't have maturing cottages to rely on increasing commerce. That's why a lot of people favor running a specialist economy with some hybrid commerce cities. Then move your capital to your best commerce city and run Bureaucracy there.

 

[GoodGame]

I'd suggest this trainer:

Make a map and save it. Play it 3 times from the same position, but change the civ each time (Financial for CE, and PHI for SE; I'd go PHI, CRE / PHI, EXP; and EXP, FIN).

Play a straight production game (no more than 3 farms per city, and no more than 1 cottage per city) with emphasis on mines, mills, and workshops.

Play a straight cottage game (no more than 2 farms per city, and mainly cottages)

Play a straight farm economy game (no more than one cottage per city, and mostly all farms, but no specialists until there's no tiles to work).

Play a specialist economy (similar to farm economy, but try to get at least one specialist per city for pop 4-5 cities, AND keep general pop growth to about 4-6 turns per pop point).

For CE/FE/SE you're allowed 1-2 straight production cities to build a military and wonders.

I have been reading these threads for days, strats etc.

Could someone be so kind as to provide a save with 3 cities or just pictures of what a CE and SE would look like early in the game.(Wealth, science, mil) I guess i need pictures. If I have missed it somewhere, please, kindly respond with the link location, flame free.


Also, for the main city, should it focus on money or research or both? I am trying to win on prince or above.

 

[darkangelx]

Well I have found my problem, I dont expand fast enough. Maybe I need more troops faster I dunno... well either too fast or not fast enough. Any advice on when its time to make a new settler?

 

[futurehermit]

1) If you have a close neighbour and copper (ideal): Build one settler to claim the copper. Then build barracks in both cities and pump out 12 axes. Go for the enemy capital. Keep it. Keep holy cities, cities that can pay for themselves (e.g., have a gold pit), and cities that are close to your capital (low maintenance).

2) If you have a close neighbour and horses (ok), build one settler to claim the horses. Build 9 chariots. Take two of your neighbours' cities (closest to your capital, but not their capital). Sue for peace then tech to construction to finish them off with catapults.

3) If you don't have a close neighbour, build 2 cities (as soon as you can, with a warrior and worker each) one production and one commerce. Tech to CoL or Currency while prebuilding defenders/workers/settlers (enough for 3 more cities). Once you have courthouses/markets chopped/whipped in your existing 3 cities, settle 3 more cities (immediately). Get courthouses/markets chop/whipped in those cities, put down some cottages, and look at expanding again following this same formula. If you are running a CE try not to drop below 60-70% science.

 

[varus]

@ Futurehermit:

I've recently played a game as Kublai kahn and I found that a massive chariot army was enough for me to conquer two of my nearest neighbors completely. My capital had lots of forests and the second city I founded was a production city (copper-hills, marble quary, crabs, wheat, and lots of hills)
On epic speed, they could each produce a chariot in 3 turns (which is pretty good).

I had 15 chariots when I attacked napoleon, and I did it just like I would have with axes, took his capital. Since I was so succesful, I just kept taking and now I own half my continent.

However, as you probably guessed, my economy hit the pits. I was still attacking with horse archers when Mao had macemen

So, the question becomes:
What is a good indicator that you have too many cities or too high maintenance and should stop expanding?

Part of the reason I kept attacking was that the AI was so determined to settle cities in my lap. If there's anything I hate, it's having a nice, well rounded empire with two AI cities stuck in the cracks.

I've noticed on many of the "challenge" games that are played by the better players here, that they "fill in" the small gaps in their territory so that the AI can't settle there. It's a smart thing to do, but I usually find that if I try it, I'm building too much and can't afford those cities. This is especially true if I'm only building there TOO fill in, in that the city site is average at best.

The only exception I've seen was one EMC where rome had a couple cities on "his" turf, but he was at war with rome and took them right from the start. What annoyed me was how conveniently it was just one AI and the closest neighbor. Sometimes I've had guys (more than one) from across the bloody continent shove a city in my face.

EDIT:
Actually, take a look:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/67282/kkahn.CivWarlordsSave
Where would you recommend going from here? You can see that my cottage economy is very strong (it is now, anyway), so I can probably catch up with mao (especially since I got the GL, and I also won the lib race)

 

[futurehermit]

Yes, it is POSSIBLE to take out a civ with just chariots. But just ONE spear fortified in a town-on-a-hill can eat up a pile of chariots. It can be a severe roadblock. I once lost a 12 chariot stack to a fortified combat-2 spear on a hill (I did it just for kicks when I knew I had screwed up).

This is why I don't like to attack with chariots (unless I know for certain that the AI has no copper/iron...then it is ok to go with chariot-massing).

Also, don't overexpand, eh?

 

[darkangelx]

I could use some input, I have been playing on lakes, huge temperate. Am I asking to lose? I started a game last night on standard and I took out the americans in <20 turns as Ghandi(my pref civ). I got ag, AH(horses in my cross)first hut gave me wheel and I was cranking out chariots 3-4 turns. I have the american starting point now and I just took out one of Ceaser's 2 villages.


Was the size of my map my problem all along?

 

[JimT]

I could use some input, I have been playing on lakes, huge temperate. Am I asking to lose? I started a game last night on standard and I took out the americans in <20 turns as Ghandi(my pref civ). I got ag, AH(horses in my cross)first hut gave me wheel and I was cranking out chariots 3-4 turns. I have the american starting point now and I just took out one of Ceaser's 2 villages.


Was the size of my map my problem all along?

Large maps means you will have more civs to beat
You have more civs to trade with
Religion plays a larger role

Also if you play large maps the game takes longer and so does the learning curve

Generally I play smaller maps but that is a time issue. I think it owes more to a lucky draw in your case.

Horses can be hit or miss but will kick start your early wars. I play fractal though so I may be asking to lose.

Just make sure you back up your chariots with horse archers or melee troops pretty soon.

 

[Stolen Rutters]

I had 15 chariots when I attacked napoleon, and I did it just like I would have with axes, took his capital. Since I was so succesful, I just kept taking and now I own half my continent.

However, as you probably guessed, my economy hit the pits. I was still attacking with horse archers when Mao had macemen

"I just kept taking" "my economy hit the pits"

Raze more cities!!! Until you have currency and code of laws, limit how many cities you keep. If they are good spots, you can put cities there after you have the tech to support them.

Everything they build that you keep is something they built for your benefit but everything you raze helps pay your bills. You win both ways. If it's a really good spot but costs too much (too early), raze it now and rebuild later when you have the tech to support it.

 

[darkangelx]

Well I finally finished a game on prince, however I lost by time (75 points) damn you Rosavelt (sp?) Anyway it was a good learning experience. I think I am spending too much time/turns building things I dont need.

Would someone mind stating which things I should have in my towns.

Main town was my GP farm, but for some reason I kept getting artists
2nd town was wonder/units

other towns were just whatever(this is what killed me I think) I ended up playing poorly at the end because I wasnt used to being alive to make tanks

Again I dont think I expanded fast enough/took out enough towns from the AI. I had 7 towns late into the game heh.

 

[12thScout]

Alot of people decide to specilize their cities so theres no sure answer, however you probably shouldn't build things like libraries in your military pumps and barracks in your cottage farm.

If you're into hybrid cities, then...you'll be building infastructure for much of the game -.-, so imo its best to specialize.

 

[Greeneyedzombie]

things you would "need" in your towns:
granary, for faster growing en regrowing afther whipping
Library, for science or to run scientists and culture.
market, for money or to run merchants + it helps with the happines.
courthouse, to reduce mantanaince you need 6 for forbidden palace.
forge, for extra hammers from whipping, increased production and to run engineers.
this is what you most likely want to have in every city, no matter if you play a CE or SE.
further you need 6 banks and universities for wallstreet and oxford. all other buildings are optional. you should build those to your needs.

 

[cabert]

the more I play, the less I see overexpansion as a problem.
Just be sure to :
- get currency and alphabet fast enough
- grow your cities big (size 1/2 cities are a burden. I raze those if I capture some, with notable exception of capitals and wonder/holy cities)
- work commerce tiles if you have some (really!)
- extort gold, sell techs, pillage your way to a large pile of gold. when you have gold in the bank, overexpansion isn't a problem.
- build wealth if needed, build units otherwise

 

[darkangelx]

the more I play, the less I see overexpansion as a problem.
Just be sure to :
- get currency and alphabet fast enough
- grow your cities big (size 1/2 cities are a burden. I raze those if I capture some, with notable exception of capitals and wonder/holy cities)
- work commerce tiles if you have some (really!)
- extort gold, sell techs, pillage your way to a large pile of gold. when you have gold in the bank, overexpansion isn't a problem.
- build wealth if needed, build units otherwise

Maybe my problems is getting currency too late... I tend to have money problems which is why my science starts to go down...