Low production start on emperor?

futurehermit

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Apr 3, 2006
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I started an emperor game today and got a really strange start! I was on the northern coast of a smallish continent. Saladin in the middle with Liz on the southern coast.

The strange thing was there was VERY little production to be had on the northern coast. I had copper, but it was two city spots to the E and it was on a desert tile surrounded by some other desert tiles. The spot in the middle was a great GPP with wheat, two fish, but having to build right on a sheep, which I felt was ok.

The spot to my immediate W was the only production city available with fish, a couple whales, and some hills (grasslands and plains). There was another spot W of that which was a coastal city with fish and sheep.

I was able to get one city to the S which was between my capital and Saladin's capital. It was on a long, snaky river with only one desert hill. I had NO production in my capital (unless you could a couple plains tiles...) prior to iron (which I delayed because I had copper and there was neglible jungle).

As a result, I had a really hard time building an army to go after Saladin. My capital was very low production and needed things like libraries, etc. My GPP was busy running specialists. My copper city was very low production and had to work coast tiles for food. My one produciton city built and whipped units, but I still ended up having to delay an attack until I hit the middle ages (I upgraded my handful of axes/swords to maces and had catapults vs. Saladin's protective longbows...).

I couldn't really stay peaceful because Saladin and Liz hated each other having founded different religions and Saladin was encroaching on my lands and was very demanding with me.

I know that one of the best ways to win emperor is to be aggressive early, but what do you do if you get a start like this where raising an army is no easy feat?

(p.s., I stayed in the game thks to a nice early rex helping me keep up cities-wise with the AI and I lightbulbed Philosophy which helped me with trade to keep up in tech)
 
Sounds like a scenario where I would simply stop teching after BW/IW/HA and go to war however I could with my nearest neighbor and take what I can or lose. It only gets more difficult to keep it going as they pull away. I would not be building libraries if axemen could allow me to take a better city. (Barracks maybe)
 
yeah, i guess i could've/should've gone to war after building those 2 cities to the east, but i just felt like my overall production capabilities in those three cities was abysmal! So, I decided to rex and put out 3 cities to the SW as well, giving me 6 cities. From there I probably shoulda just gone full-out axes as well. Oh well, I'll try again. I think this start was pretty rare imo.
 
Agree with Mutineer - food surplus is preferable to all others. With the emperor happy cap of 4, you can keep cities hovering between 2 and 4 and just whip away.

I wouldn't consider the start you described as easy though - going after the AI with a low-yield empire is tough.

You have to go to war eventually to win emperor, and the earlier you can amass enough force to do so the better. That said, i've had games where even with opportunistic warmongering I never had a shot at number one until the very end. Some games on emperor are not winneable, imho, so all you can do is try.
 
yes, i know all about whipping, don't worry, and i did it as much as possible in this game. the problem was that between whips i didn't have any hammers with which to raise an army. admittedly, i was also doing some other things, like getting my GPfarm up and running and trying to raise my happy cap whenever possible (e.g., coliseums) when instead maybe i should have just been going all-out military. it was just kind of a strange game that played out. like i had to build two cities to the east to get the copper all hooked up and then i had to build one west so i had at least one respectable production city. then it only made sense to claim the last spot to the west and the nice one still sitting between me and saladin (i also wanted to get rid of barbs). however, by this point saladin was getting much harder to attack (protective archers are a pita, especially when the city is on a hill...)
 
Sounds like a scenario where I would simply stop teching after BW/IW/HA and go to war however I could with my nearest neighbor and take what I can or lose. It only gets more difficult to keep it going as they pull away. I would not be building libraries if axemen could allow me to take a better city. (Barracks maybe)

Specifically BW/IW/HA. What is HA?

Low hammer areas of the continent make for a rough start. I am curious as to what civ you were playing.
 
Agree with Mutineer - food surplus is preferable to all others. With the emperor happy cap of 4, you can keep cities hovering between 2 and 4 and just whip away.

I wouldn't consider the start you described as easy though - going after the AI with a low-yield empire is tough.

You have to go to war eventually to win emperor, and the earlier you can amass enough force to do so the better. That said, i've had games where even with opportunistic warmongering I never had a shot at number one until the very end. Some games on emperor are not winneable, imho, so all you can do is try.

I second this. Although I consider myself more as a Builder, I always go for an early war (unless isolated or able to build 10 – 15 cities myself) because without that it is very hard to compete with the AI tech and production wise.

Don’t mind if the AI is stronger then you. What always works out is this:

Take 2 cities in a quick attack (maybe 2 -5 turns after you declared war). Hold them with all you have for another 10 turns, then the AI will again talk to you. When he is in fact stronger then you, he will ask for a city for peace. Simply give him a tech (alp col phil will do) or some gold 50 -100 gold + 5 – 10 per round). Build more troops in peace period. Repeat attack until you have enough cities…
 
were you running an SE?

especially if not, i think you should have whipped that gp farm. i rarely find it viable to have one that early on emperor, although an early shrine, academy in the capital, or philosophy lightbulb is always tempting. imo that city would've better off doing something else for the moment, especially if your prod. is low.
 
I was going for an early philosophy lightbulb :( and, no, i wasn't running SE. I like to have pyramids for that, but with the production I had, it would've took about 300 turns :p
 
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