acluewithout
Deity
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2017
- Messages
- 3,496
So, killing time till the next patch, I was playing England, Immortal, Standard. Map was Detailed Worlds, Mixed Continents[0]. Early game. I was badly boxed in; coast west south and east; spain and incas to the north. I got four cities down. Then surprise war and captured Spain’s two big coastal cities.
I had some loyalty issues once I took Phil’s cities. They were coastals which made things harder, but some governors and cards and garrison and it was all fine. Still, it meant I had to put Governors in non optimal cities (decisions! Trade offs! Awesome).
Peace out with Phil. Medieval Era rolls around. World Congress. Yup. Emergency against me. Not unexpected[1]. Everyone: give Phil back his Cities! Me: yeah. No. One of them has hanging gardens and I just built oracle in that one. Tell Phil to go jump. Also, I have walls and archers.
So, repelling borders. All quite fun. Phil’s Cities are now plump and I’m in a Golden Age. Let’s move those Governors and swap out the loyalty cards so I can do something more productive. I open to the City screen to see how I’m placed with loyalty.
...
OMG.
...O. M. G.
...I have -10 loyalty from Grievances!!!
-10!!!
That’s... quite a lot.
I had to leave my Governors where they were. I had to leave some cards where they were. I had to change and adapt my plans! Unthinkable!
So, to be clear. I’m really happy about this. Really happy. I captured someone’s City. And instead of it just meekly becoming part of my empire, it actually remained kinda cross and spicy and I had to work to keep it. And, if I kept playing the game, some of that work might have required getting Phil back on side.
And -10 is a meaningful amount of negative loyalty. Something I had to pay attention to.
So, has anyone else had any experience with negative loyalty from grievances? Does anyone know how it works?
I assume the negative is somehow proportional to the amount of Grievances. I’d been pretty mean to Phil, so that’s how I got to -10. I’ll try to have a close look and see what my Grievances were.
[0] Almost worth it’s own thread - the latest Detailed Worlds mod is seriously awesome (EvilVictor or @Seven05 , Detailed Worlds 2.12). I can finally get some really decent maps - continents that aren’t too blobby but not full on island plates. Also, that diplomacy visualisation mod is really game changing (Sukritact’s Global Relations Panel). I can finally see who thinks what about who and plan accordingly. There are parts of this game that really are getting much much better over time. ... and while we’re on this topic. I’m really loving the Civ V skin. I liked Civ VI’s base art style - still do. And I’ve never actually played Civ V so don’t have any attachment to that game. But I’m really like the Civ V skin. The game world weirdly feels more “real” but also more “board game”. It’s just the right mix of everything.
[1] I don’t mind the way these early emergencies work; ie you or someone else captures a city in the ancient or classical era, but the emergency only comes later. In principle, it gives players time to sort their military out before they get the emergency. It also gives you a little time to get people on side (in my example, I was expecting the emergency and so had time to convince Australia not to join). But what’s missing is having some mechanic that triggers the World Congress rather than it just starting automatically in the Medieval Era. If it had a trigger, that would make for some much more interesting decisions - eg say WC was triggered by building the Apostolic Palace. So, I could maybe rush that to trigger an Emergency for something that happened in the ancient era; or maybe I’m the aggressor, and now I don’t know if I should build it because first order of business will be an emergency against me. You could have a similar thing with the UN Building - it has to get built before anyone can start voting for world leader resolutions.)
I had some loyalty issues once I took Phil’s cities. They were coastals which made things harder, but some governors and cards and garrison and it was all fine. Still, it meant I had to put Governors in non optimal cities (decisions! Trade offs! Awesome).
Peace out with Phil. Medieval Era rolls around. World Congress. Yup. Emergency against me. Not unexpected[1]. Everyone: give Phil back his Cities! Me: yeah. No. One of them has hanging gardens and I just built oracle in that one. Tell Phil to go jump. Also, I have walls and archers.
So, repelling borders. All quite fun. Phil’s Cities are now plump and I’m in a Golden Age. Let’s move those Governors and swap out the loyalty cards so I can do something more productive. I open to the City screen to see how I’m placed with loyalty.
...
OMG.
...O. M. G.
...I have -10 loyalty from Grievances!!!
-10!!!
That’s... quite a lot.
I had to leave my Governors where they were. I had to leave some cards where they were. I had to change and adapt my plans! Unthinkable!
So, to be clear. I’m really happy about this. Really happy. I captured someone’s City. And instead of it just meekly becoming part of my empire, it actually remained kinda cross and spicy and I had to work to keep it. And, if I kept playing the game, some of that work might have required getting Phil back on side.
And -10 is a meaningful amount of negative loyalty. Something I had to pay attention to.
So, has anyone else had any experience with negative loyalty from grievances? Does anyone know how it works?
I assume the negative is somehow proportional to the amount of Grievances. I’d been pretty mean to Phil, so that’s how I got to -10. I’ll try to have a close look and see what my Grievances were.
[0] Almost worth it’s own thread - the latest Detailed Worlds mod is seriously awesome (EvilVictor or @Seven05 , Detailed Worlds 2.12). I can finally get some really decent maps - continents that aren’t too blobby but not full on island plates. Also, that diplomacy visualisation mod is really game changing (Sukritact’s Global Relations Panel). I can finally see who thinks what about who and plan accordingly. There are parts of this game that really are getting much much better over time. ... and while we’re on this topic. I’m really loving the Civ V skin. I liked Civ VI’s base art style - still do. And I’ve never actually played Civ V so don’t have any attachment to that game. But I’m really like the Civ V skin. The game world weirdly feels more “real” but also more “board game”. It’s just the right mix of everything.
[1] I don’t mind the way these early emergencies work; ie you or someone else captures a city in the ancient or classical era, but the emergency only comes later. In principle, it gives players time to sort their military out before they get the emergency. It also gives you a little time to get people on side (in my example, I was expecting the emergency and so had time to convince Australia not to join). But what’s missing is having some mechanic that triggers the World Congress rather than it just starting automatically in the Medieval Era. If it had a trigger, that would make for some much more interesting decisions - eg say WC was triggered by building the Apostolic Palace. So, I could maybe rush that to trigger an Emergency for something that happened in the ancient era; or maybe I’m the aggressor, and now I don’t know if I should build it because first order of business will be an emergency against me. You could have a similar thing with the UN Building - it has to get built before anyone can start voting for world leader resolutions.)
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