Mac Version: What Did They Change?

[mythusmage]

What alterations did they inflict on the game when they ported it to the Mac? And would it be possible to place those characters before a black board to write 10,000 times each, "I will not change things that work fine as it is."?

Yes, I am having trouble with a mod.

 

[AlanH]

Mods have trouble if they are written to expect files to be in specific places.

The Mac version of Civ3 has different folder structure from the Windows one, because they followed the Apple guidance that user-writable items such as saves, settings, user-defined mods, should not be stored in the application's directory. That should be read-only except when the software publisher's updates are applied. You can see this same philosophy at work in Civ4 for Windows and Mac, which follows similar guidance now in place for Windows applications.

The most likely fix for your problem is to copy some of the built-in standard folders/files into the mod folder, but I can't advise further without knowing what errors you are seeing, or trying that mod myself.

You will get no support from Aspyr, as they don't want to know about problems running any mod they have not supplied and tested themselves.

 

[mythusmage]

You mean to tell me Microsoft went and did something sensible? Ack! What is this world coming to?

Having no aptitude for programming I have to ask; how hard would it be to re-write CivIII so it acts like CivIV where directories and files are concerned? Is there enough interest in the CivIII community to take on the task, and would Aspyr authorize it?

 

[AlanH]

If Microsoft hadn't been playing catch-up on Mac OS since 1984, Windows would still look like a jumped up command line interface.

Neither Civ3 nor Civ4 are models of the way a cross platform product should work with respect to mods.

Mac Civ3 breaks a lot of mods because its folder structure is very different from the Windows version of Civ3, and is *already* similar to the Civ4 structure. There's no point in changing Civ3 to look even more like Civ4.

Aspyr did attempt to write file path translations to allow mods to work. Sometimes this is successful - there are several mods shipped with Mac C3C that work fine. If we knew the rules that are used internally, we could probably put together a set of symbolic links that would assist mods that currently fail to find the files they need. But we don't!

In any case, please don't use Civ4 as a model of how to do it. Mac Civ4 breaks a heck of a lot of mods.

The Civ4 folder structure is *still* different from the Windows version. "C:\Documents and Settings\[UserName]\My Documents\My Games\Warlords" does not equal "/Users/[UserName]/Documents/Civilization IV Warlords".

Civ4 Modders assume their mods are running on Windows, and they can get details of the user's folder structure from the Windows Registry. The Windows Registry trick doesn't work at all on the Mac, of course. It doesn't even work all the time on Windows!

The Windows Registry issue is a minor problem you often have to resolve first when porting a Civ4 mod. But then you start on all the other incompatibility issues with Civ4 mods on a Mac - no custom DLL, Python v2.3 instead of 2.4, a different XML parser, Windows-only help files ....

Good luck with discussing release of the source code for either product with Aspyr!

(a) Aspyr don't have the right to give it to anyone else. Code ownership rests with Firaxis.

(b) You'd have to climb over the dead bodies of both Firaxis/Take2 and Aspyr to get your hands on the code they both spent years developing.

 

[mythusmage]

You know, after all these years isn't it about time computer people started to standardize?

Just remember; Jewish grandmothers invented guilt, Italian grandmothers perfected it.

 

[AlanH]

I'm sure Microsoft would agree with you. Just lie back and standardise on the Windows monopoly.

 

[mythusmage]

They're not aware of what standardization means. It means the standards become open source. It's why Apple and Sun Microsystems are against computer standardization, because any of their stuff declared a standard becomes free for other companies to use.

One day, but for now the computer culture is not yet mature enough for such things.

 

[AlanH]

I *was* being ironic! How would you propose that Apple makes its money? Or is money also an outmoded concept in your world view?

PS. Standards do not imply open source. Standards define interfaces, not implementation.

 

[mythusmage]

I *was* being ironic! How would you propose that Apple makes its money? Or is money also an outmoded concept in your world view?

PS. Standards do not imply open source. Standards define interfaces, not implementation.

When CBS went to color broadcasting they were using the industry standard, which was the implementation invented by NBC. it was the RCA version of AM broadcasting the radio industry adopted. When talking about technological standards it is the implementation, hardware and software, we're talking about. The core hardware and the core software is what we're talking about here. How one basically does stuff. Bells and whistles are another matter entirely.

Remember, Linux is open source, but RedHat and other versions are proprietary because they are specific implementations instead of general. It's the general implementation that I'm talking about.