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Make Tall Valid - Make Pop Matter - Increase Science/Culture per Population

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by myb7721, Aug 11, 2017.

  1. HorseshoeHermit

    HorseshoeHermit 20% accurate as usual, Morty

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    Tall doesn't need to be viable. The important thing to stop is REX dominating everything, which it doesn't, currently.

    Reverting food costs to being an arithmetic progression would be sensible, though.
     
  2. SammyKhalifa

    SammyKhalifa Deity

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    Why not? Civilizations in real life sometimes have big cities. Plus some of us like playing that way. Though I understand why people wouldn't want to go back to CIV5 way.

    The growth rates mentioned earlier by Hans makes sense (though I honestly don't know the numbers). More percentage yields in buildings or CS bonus could help too, I suppse.
     
  3. Olleus

    Olleus Deity

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    Back in the old days there were two terms that everybody used REX and ICS.
    REX = Rapidly early expansion, the idea that the best strategy is to have as many cities as possible as quickly as possible.
    ICS = Infinite City Sprawl, the best strategy is the one that has the most cities packed as closely as possible.

    Both of those are generally considered to be bad things, partly because they are gamey, but mostly because having only one viable strategy is dull. Note that this doesn't mean that people do not want a map covered by various empires colour (as could happen in Civ5). I think it is good that by the mid game every piece of land is owned or contested. However, that does not translate into saying that every city should be built as early as possible, as close as possible to each other.


    An important resource in the game is (and should be, although it wasn't in Civ5) land. Being a sparse resource, the natural question is how should it be used.
    There ought to be a real choice between filling the same landmass with tons of tiny cities, and filling it with a few small cities.
    There ought to be a real choice between building cities very fast from the start, or growing 'tall' first and then expanding.
    In every case the end game should be to own the most land and the most pop, but the choice is how you distribute the pop, in space and in time.


    At the moment Civ6 encourages both REX and ICS incredibly strongly. This ought to change.
     
    EgonSpengler and SammyKhalifa like this.
  4. EgonSpengler

    EgonSpengler Deity

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    As a partisan for balancing realism and gameplay, I think it's worth pointing out that making "tall" nations more balanced against "wide" nations serves both masters. irl, there's no correlation between the big countries and the countries that are doing well in the metrics that Civ uses for its Victory Conditions (and, just to be clear, there's no negative correlation, either).

    Wikipedia: List of countries by population
    Wikipedia: List of countries by area

    Glance down those two lists and take a quick tally in your head of which countries are leading in religion, science, culture, and military dominance. Of course population and area don't map exactly onto number of cities, but it's approximate. For a quick n' dirty comparison, China in Spring 2017 had 100 cities of 1,000,000+ people, and France had 7. Is China just curb-stomping France in religion, science, culture, and military strength? Not even a little bit. (If you drop the population count to 500,000, France has 17 such cities; I can't find how many Chinese cities of 500,000 there are, but I suppose it could be 300-400. The Chinese may not even consider a population of 500,000 to be a city at all. :lol: )
     

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