Making 2 early settlers with tradition

[Silverfuturist]

I have read a lot of theory about making a very early settler when going tradition, and I am a believer in this for FFA after many games of playing it. I typically have a shrine built before making my settler (unless I am lucky enough to meet a religious CS first.) I get the second city up so that by the time writing opens the first build is a library, and by the time philosophy is done the library in both my cities is finished so NC can get started. While the second city is building the library, the capital will have a grainery and then a caravan to boost the second city's growth. I try to settle the second city on a lux so that there is enough happy to keep the growth going.

Then I tried... starting off with 2 early settlers! Why? Below me was Rome who told me not to settle to my south... so naturally I needed to settle 2 cities ASAP before the good land was taken. I was able to settle on both gems and gold, it worked out well.

I did not do any analysis on how that compared vs 1 early city, but I was pleased with the results both in development and claiming good land. Are there any strong players who have done analysis on building 2 early settlers vs 1 with tradition? The key to my question is ANALYSIS, please don't reply with opinion unless you have some numbers behind it.

 

[tommynt]

numbers will allways tell you to expand fast!
I will allways go for at least 3 usually 4 cities before NC.

but then you just need other things, like units to do CS quests, but these gains are impossible to put in numbers as they epend so much on suroundings ..

In end answer is pretty simple. Maxiing Trad/Lib and go for the free settler from liberty is way better as only tradition. if u want number - do them - the numbers will tell you that I m right!
Maybe U dont even need numbers but can just believe me - cause I know ..

 

[Tabarnak]

I was able to settle on both gems and gold, it worked out well.

I think you already found why. If you can't settle on a lux right away i often skip the 3rd city for a bit later. I can also skip the early shrine if an early religion is close from impossible to get(due to poor faith land around).

You can also try something like this Silver :

BO : Scout-scout-settler(2 , hoping for a 3rd pop from a ruin from aggressive scouting)-shrine
2nd city : granary-library

Caravan for capital instead, let the 2nd city grow with granary only, preferably around wheat/banana tiles. The faster settler let you build the granary in time in your 2nd city. With 5-6 2nd city, you can start on a settler or 2 while you build the NC in cap.

Maxiing Trad/Lib and go for the free settler from liberty is way better as only tradition.

Of course, 1+1>1 isn't it? Question is : Can you gather enough policies in time to make it worth? All depends of land and civ i guess.

 

[Silverfuturist]

numbers will allways tell you to expand fast!
I will allways go for at least 3 usually 4 cities before NC.

but then you just need other things, like units to do CS quests, but these gains are impossible to put in numbers as they epend so much on suroundings ..

In end answer is pretty simple. Maxiing Trad/Lib and go for the free settler from liberty is way better as only tradition. if u want number - do them - the numbers will tell you that I m right!
Maybe U dont even need numbers but can just believe me - cause I know ..

There are many settings where I think liberty first is essential, like a lot of those teamer games. But in FFAs with all civ elements turned on, I have had the best results with going full tradition, and then getting liberty policies second if I have enough culture before ren era. If I have only 1 extra policy before ren era, I open patronage, if I have 2+ I go liberty. Part of this could be that in a 6+ person FFA, killing 1 or 2 civs does not give any advantage over a player that peacefully builds up and plans a later era rush. If the war is costly it is a disadvantage, and of course is the war isn't won that the game is usually lost.

I think the settler policy comes too late - that is the 3rd policy in, and if I open with 2 settlers with tradition, I already have both cities made before a liberty player can get the free settler. Also with BNW and gold - when I go full trad first, I have no gold problems.

But this is all based upon my playing experience, and if there is a way somebody is playing the game differently with strategies I have not seen, then I will adapt accordingly. I do read the forums and try different things out... I am favoring towards this tradition approach right now. But not for a duel of course! Or maybe not even for a 4 person FFA.

 

[Silverfuturist]

I think you already found why. If you can't settle on a lux right away i often skip the 3rd city for a bit later. I can also skip the early shrine if an early religion is close from impossible to get(due to poor faith land around).

You can also try something like this Silver :

BO : Scout-scout-settler(2 , hoping for a 3rd pop from a ruin from aggressive scouting)-shrine
2nd city : granary-library

Caravan for capital instead, let the 2nd city grow with granary only, preferably around wheat/banana tiles. The faster settler let you build the granary in time in your 2nd city. With 5-6 2nd city, you can start on a settler or 2 while you build the NC in cap.

I have not tried out granary in second city first before library, but it does sound like it has strong potential. I think this requires an extra lux to be hooked up, which of course means planting the cap on a lux is even more desirable. It also requires strong hammers in the second city, without liberty bonus that library can take a long time.

I find that even with planting my first city on the lux that with the caravan I run out of happy quickly, even with the trad happy/gold policy. I see the NC as a very productive way to "stall" for time before more happiness is secured for more growth. This makes the worker steal even more essential, which means that less units can be out and exploring - must steal worker and defend lands from barbs.

Building a settler in the second city after it grows makes way too much sense... with trad the hammer cost is the same everywhere!

 

[Silverfuturist]

"I can also skip the early shrine if an early religion is close from impossible to get(due to poor faith land around)"

I am betting that you don't skip the early shrine if there is a killer pantheon that awaits you... for example if you have a lot of wheat/bananas/citrus around, even without religion I want to secure and make use of sun-god ASAP.

 

[tommynt]

trad/lib mix is definatly optimal even for FFA - just try ...

The only situation where maybe only Tradition is better is when u steal all the workers you want from CS. Apart that liberty frees bo for the much needed workers ...

Ah what do I talk - why even bother talking about settings which include CS - dumbs game down way too much.

 

[Tabarnak]

Well, i think we all agree on same general things.

You're right Silver, the early settler has something pervert : You need to steal a worker from a cs or buy one with lucky early gold(210). But hey, most games are played at emperor/immortal so that's still make sense.

You can easily delay your first lux if you can grab Monarchy before +2 food and a culture ruin, better mixed with 1 or 2 NW found. That said, approx 50-60% of games can give you these aspects. At worse, stay unhappy for some turns, focus on hammers and regrow fast with granaries.

 

[Silverfuturist]

The only situation where maybe only Tradition is better is when u steal all the workers you want from CS"

Yes, without worker steal, tradition gets nerfed.