Making the jump from King to emperor

Alashiya

Warlord
Joined
Nov 29, 2018
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hi I'm struggling to make the jump from King to Emperor Id be obliged if someone could give me pointers on where to raise my game I'm struggling to kill the nearest starting civ on level 6 + is there something I'm doing wrong by waiting on horsemen/swordsmen and using them to conquer the nearest civ?


I'm adequate on King-level I suppose I need to be excellent
 
Are you sure you're struggling? Is this your first game on Emperor?

Starting on Emperor it is normal to be behind other Civs for a few eras, so just don't use that as an indicator of how well you're doing.

Early on I rarely conquer unless there's a very good opportunity. I'll have a sufficiently strong army to defend myself but direct the rest of my focus towards growth.
 
hi I'm struggling to make the jump from King to Emperor Id be obliged if someone could give me pointers on where to raise my game I'm struggling to kill the nearest starting civ on level 6 + is there something I'm doing wrong by waiting on horsemen/swordsmen and using them to conquer the nearest civ?
Depends. Personally, wait until I get Swordsmen because the AI tends to Archers fairly early and those just wipe out early Warriors. Unless your first two cities have really high production, you are probably not going to be able to build Warriors fast enough to overwhelm an early opponent, especially if they have built up any military. Getting early Archers is also important if you want to conquer before you unlock Swordsmen.

My usual strategy is to settle two to three cities, focus two on unit production and then one or two on economic stuff. You need at least one +3/4 Campus early, probably your capital or second city. You capital should also build an encampment and then focus on unit production. If you don't build a campus in your capital, the build and Commercial Zone. You second best production city should build an encampment and then focus on units as well. Build any traders you can ASAP so you generate gold to maintain and upgrade units. You shouldn't attack until you have Swordsmen, Archers, and Battering Rams. Having a Great General is key as well, especially once you unlock Catapults since the extra movement allows them to move and shoot.
 
Turtle up. Build district infrastructure with high yields. Wait for Frigates and Bombers. Clear map.
 
rAre you sure you're struggling? Is this your first game on Emperor?
yup, no it's not my first game on Emperor
Starting on Emperor it is normal to be behind other Civs for a few eras, so just don't use that as an indicator of how well you're doing.
I might have been paying too much attention to this. thinking more on what you've said I've been playing too aggressively I think assuming you HAVE to kill the nearest neighbour
Are you sure you're struggling? Is this your first game on Emperor?

Starting on Emperor it is normal to be behind other Civs for a few eras, so just don't use that as an indicator of how well you're doing.

Early on I rarely conquer unless there's a very good opportunity. I'll have a sufficiently strong army to defend myself but direct the rest of my focus towards growth.
 
I frequently play this difficulty. Expect to be behind in score for a while, maybe even close to half the game if you play peacefully. But usually I'm not that far behind on tech, even if I don't build campus districts early on. Emperor isn't that punishing with regards to being behind on tech, especially if you have a large population and use Pingala.

I play on marathon, huge maps (usually continents and islands) so keep that in mind with what I say.

I find I have a few options when playing emperor which is why I like this difficulty. I can get away with scout first, but keep in mind if you are sandwiched in between multiple AI's the situation may be hopeless. As I found out a few days ago with Ludwig. I was declared on by one, then I saw another AI massing troops on my border, I knew it was time for a restart. It's difficult for me to salvage this kind of situation of being stuck in the middle. Props to those who can pull it off, but I prefer to be near a coast and have to only fend from one direction ideally.

Next game I started was bad too. Stuck with plains and tundra and my nearest AI got walls up with an encampment protected by a narrow mountain pass and I knew that was hopeless. My land wasn't good enough for me to peacefully expand, and I couldn't attack the ai, so that was a restart. I thought maybe the recent patch (I haven't played in many months) had toughened the AI, but I think it was just bad luck. My current game is going much better. Started with a lot of grasslands, jungle and woods and decent number of hills. I was able to peacefully expand as Ludwig and once I got my Hansas and commercials up it was pretty much game over for the AI. I'm still in the middle of this game, but it's easily in hand.

As for those options I mentioned. The first is early war. I always wait for archers. Warriors alone I don't think will work (at least not on huge maps). I often go with 4 or 5 archers, a few warriors and a spearman. Maybe have a scout around if needed for putting a city under siege. This won't work in all situations of course. As I mentioned above with the AI getting to walls pretty fast and having a chokepoint. I can usually deal with walls if I have access to iron, and I just bring a battering ram. It all depends on the map really. If you have a civ with a great early UU then this is the preferred strat.

A second option if I have plenty of open space and can maintain peace is to peacefully expand. Once I get some districts online I will slowly overtake the AI. From there I sometimes attack the AI and expand once I get to bombards, or if my situation is good I'll just play a peaceful game the entire way through.

Generally when it comes to war, I like to do it early before they get too much of a tech lead, or do it in the middle. Or sometimes if I'm bored I do it late game, but that's mostly for funsies and sometimes I like to liberate city states or bring down a civ who is snowballing. As for the early war I often go animal husbandry, mining, then archery and bronze working. Then masonry if I need to deal with walls.

Only thing I didn't mention is religion. I almost never go for it. Even on emperor it's pretty tough to get a religion. I will do it with certain civs if I'm aiming for a religious victory of course, but the conditions need to be ideal. I pretty much have to forsake everything else to get it, including defense.
 
Are you (ab)using religion to your advantage? Founding a religion with a proper pantheon (given terrain that allows) + Work Ethics can make a world of a difference in keeping up with production, and Crusades belief will help you a lot in war if you're technologically even or behind.
 
As for those options I mentioned. The first is early war. I always wait for archers. Warriors alone I don't think will work (at least not on huge maps). I often go with 4 or 5 archers, a few warriors and a spearman. Maybe have a scout around if needed for putting a city under siege. This won't work in all situations of course.
If I go early war, this is usually my route. Play as Nubia and go nuts. Best to save some gold and upgrade Slingers, IMO. A Spearman is nice but don't wait for it. You can really level up PArchers fast. (Obviously these work better in flat terrain.)

Even better if you get DOW'd, and they expend military coming for you. Just fortify your Warriors and pick off units with PArchers.

I also like Rome early - free Monuments get you to Oligarchy fast. You don't even need Legions to begin with. Also, Monty is a ton of fun if you can get the right map with Lux. I have had difficulty getting Genghis or Alex timings right, and I just don't warmonger enough to want to spend time on it.
 
Turtle up. Build district infrastructure with high yields. Wait for Frigates and Bombers. Clear map.
This is the way:assimilate:

I focus on settling on good places for that sweet yield porn, I also always play with these game modes: Heroes and Legends, Secret Societies and Monopolies and Corporations. Don't disregard getting Maui to make an OK settling place even more appealable and try going for Sanguine Pact in order to get the vampire units to help you keep barbs and aggressive AI at bay (also good for yeld porn for you capital). Religion always helps, try securing a religion for your CIV, investing in a +3 faith Holy Site early on is going to be better than investing in a meh +1 or +2 Campus. Try obtaining golden ages, a monumentality dedication allows to buy civilian units with faith, which is awesome!
 
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Are you (ab)using religion to your advantage? Founding a religion with a proper pantheon (given terrain that allows) + Work Ethics can make a world of a difference in keeping up with production, and Crusades belief will help you a lot in war if you're technologically even or behind.
Religion is an aspect of the game I've only recently got into it drives me nuts having the Civ equivalent of the Word Bearers(40k joke) next door and having them eliminate my religion
 
Are you (ab)using religion to your advantage? Founding a religion with a proper pantheon (given terrain that allows) + Work Ethics can make a world of a difference in keeping up with production, and Crusades belief will help you a lot in war if you're technologically even or behind.
Personally, I find going for a religion holds back my game at least 30 to 50 turns !

I usually play to the civ I chose strength, so if there's a religion aspect to that civ, I WILL go for a religion. But my opening statement stands in almost all of those cases.

Teching is the key to the game IMHO ! The faster you get ahead in tech, the easier it will be to overwhelm the other civs, be it military or most other ways. Entering into the fight for a religion sets you back so much on that part.

All that being said, I feel that the fact I ALWAYS play huge maps play a part in this; Religion win is SO tedious on huge maps, and culture also with 12 civs. I'm convinced that smaller maps leads to different realities.

As for crusade, well... it will only be THAT useful if you really play domination. Work ethic is great... if you really play the religion game by converting all you can.

Anyways... old arguments ;-) The way I usually play, religion is a brake to my civ, not a swing
 
I usually play to the civ I chose strength, so if there's a religion aspect to that civ, I WILL go for a religion. But my opening statement stands in almost all of those cases.
Personally, I find it a complication when Id rather focus on building up my empire/cities/armies
 
Lots of different answers here, but I'll try to tailor my reply to the Emperor level. I am generally not a fan of very specific and detailed answers when it comes to tips, so I'll try to explain how you might want to start to reason instead, because the value of correct reasoning keeps being valid as you progress further up the difficulties.

As you mention, you struggle with killing your neighbour. This is typical of the experience of jumping from King to Emperor. The reason for this is that one extra city more or less doubles the potential of your neighbour (Emperor AI gets two settlers, not one), much more so that the other % bonuses they get. This means they tech faster off of two starter cities, they produce twice as fast, and it doubles the chance that you will run into walls (which will come earlier as well). As such, the major difference between King and Emperor is that you will automatically start falling behind your neighbour, you cannot just "wing it" anymore and win. This is the point where you need to start thinking about an actual strategy
Assuming you want to kill your neighbour, you thus have to start thinking about opening strategy. This is because if you fail that rush (which might work at King), you are set back majorly if you fail to rush your first target. You just wasted all your production for no result, and your target now has more cities than, will out-tech you and and now also has an army. This is obviously not good, and you have to avoid that scenario.

I am not going to tailor a specific opening for you, but rather lay out the general principles you should be thinking about. In order to kill a neighbour successfully and avoid the scenario above where you run into a developed neighbour that has more or better units than you (especially bad if they have walls), you have to consider the central question: How do I ensure that my attack becomes a success in the first place?

There are a few key components to consider here, and they will guide you into choosing the appropriate opening principle for a rush:
  • Hit sooner. The goal here is to hit before your neighbour has too many units, a better tech level (which will soon translate into better units than you), and especiallymanages to get walls.
    • If you want to do this, you got to look at how much production you can get in the short term. Favourable terrain with lots of production is good, as well as settling another 1-2 cities to have more cities to produce from. Policy cards like Agoge allows you to produce faster as well, if you can get it. Try to cut down on anything that isnt strictly necessary, like Granaries/Monuments etc. Your goal is to overwhelm your target, fast.
  • Hit harder. The goal here is signicantly pump out stronger units than what you would ordinarily have at this point in the game. There are many ways to do this:
    • You pick a civ with a strong starting combat bonus or early unit (Gaul or Nubia for instance).
    • You beeline science fast (only if you have strong adjacencies) and beeline a key unit. Swordsmen with battering rams are very solid, but Horsemen or even Archers can be fine as well.
  • Seize a ripe opportunity.This is perhaps the most fuzzy principle, but it's very key. One example of a ripe opportunity (to attack) is when your neighbour has a weak/no army, struggles for some random reason (floods wiped everything, barbs are sieging them), and that they settled their cities on flat, open land with few/no mountains or lakes around it. Especially open cities like these are very easy to run down. Compare it to trying to attack a city with only one tight valley style entrace between mountains, where the terrain is hills and forest. The difference is like night and day.
    • Turn on leader icons that show yields! This shows who is vulnerable, as amy strength and science per turn are strong indicators for short- to medium term vulnerability. A target with 5 science per turn and 30 army strength is a cakewalk to mow down (it means he will not get classical era tech anytime soon, and he has roughly a warrior and a half in terms of units), whereas you should be very careful with a target who has 30 science per turn and 200 army strength (about 10 warriors worth) in the ancient/early classical era.
    • Use at least one unit to scout your invasion point! You will get to know how the terrain is (very important, as explained above), you know how many units he has and where, and any other important factors.

Teching is the key to the game IMHO ! The faster you get ahead in tech, the easier it will be to overwhelm the other civs, be it military or most other ways. Entering into the fight for a religion sets you back so much on that part.
This is true if you want to speedrun the game, but this is not the case here. Remember that he just made the jump from King to Emperor, which is one of the most rough difficulty spikes to learn to handle, as this is roughly the point in the difficulty curve where you have to start playing somewhat meta in terms of opening strategy (of which there are many viable ones!), and forget about "winging it" like you can easily do at King level without much thought. The reason why religion is good (as mentioned by @kaspergm ) is because it is one of those opening strategies that is very consistent (assuming you get the pantheon you desire), and it keeps working consistently into the Deity and Deity++ level (for those who play that mod).

You cannot just blindly tech up at the hardest difficulties, because there might not be enough science available (science adjacencies are the big factor here), and there might be a window of opportunity that you have to or should exploit. That could be a vulnerable neighbour with flat terrain who is struggling, or you are about to get boxed in and risk losing cities on loyalty. You really have to weigh your options here, and as such you can't assume you'll be able to freely play for science. An inland flat plains start with no mountains/geothermal fissures and a vulnerable neighbour is almost forcing a rush over playing for early science (what science?). True, you can often get good science opportunities and it is the fastest way to play, but if either of those are not true, then why limit yourself with such a narrow opening?

The religion opener is not strong on Deity or above due to Work Ethic (though it certainly helps), but due to Crusade. Crusade is the fastest consistent way any vanilla civ can get a "higher tech level" in terms of combat strength, and is faster than science. The combination of speed and consistenty is the thing that allows this rush to work so well on the hardest difficulties. One missionary is often enough to flip the first city, at which point you snowball (you can pillage for more afterwards). There is no reason to focus on religion after the first neighbour is dead if you dont want to, the point is just to mow down the first neighbour with cheap units that act as strong units and set up a strong base from there. This rush hits before you hard tech units through science, which is why it works well if you need a consistent opener. And you can perfectly well transition into a peaceful game after that, as additional cities and more space has more than made up for the religion detour.


For the OP: I do not recommend playing the religion opener until you get a bit higher in difficulty level, because it involves a lot of finer aspects and mandates a bit of min-maxing behaviour.
 
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Even better if you get DOW'd, and they expend military coming for you. Just fortify your Warriors and pick off units with PArchers.
Even better than that again is to fortify outside their borders as the war starts.
You dont want to be attacked, because that wastes a lot of time just clearing out the units the AI sends your way. By the time you do so, there is also the high risk that they have teched up new military tech or gotten walls up, which is a very bad thing early on.
The most solid way to beat an AI (tactically) is to abuse it's idiotic reasoning it has for unit movement, and just send your army right outside their borders (ideally on rough terrain) and choose from there.
If there are no units there, move in and take his cities.
If there are units, fortify outside and let them march to their deaths. After cleaning up you dont have to make the long walk to their cities, because you are already right next to them. Saves turns and makes your attack more likely to work, as it lessens the chance they get to tech and wall up. :)

Other than that a very good tip though. Never attack an AI if they are perfectly willing to attack into you first.
 
Starting on Emperor it is normal to be behind other Civs for a few eras, so just don't use that as an indicator of how well you're doing.

Early on I rarely conquer unless there's a very good opportunity. I'll have a sufficiently strong army to defend myself but direct the rest of my focus towards growth.

I agree. I only play as Deity, where this applies in spades, as it's all but impossible to conquer any non-barbarian empire (and very hard to conquer city states) until you can flood them with promoted GDRs in the Future era.
 
I agree. I only play as Deity, where this applies in spades, as it's all but impossible to conquer any non-barbarian empire (and very hard to conquer city states) until you can flood them with promoted GDRs in the Future era.
Well TBH... bombers come before that, and mowing cities with bombers is a piece of cake
 
I am not going to tailor a specific opening for you, but rather lay out the general principles you should be thinking about.
These are really sound advice. I too agree that one should think macroscopically rather than being trapped into micromanagement or using cookie cutter strategies.

Even better than that again is to fortify outside their borders as the war starts.
Even better than that:rotfl: use the lens filter and settle the cap right next to an AI's cap, DOW and fortify the Warrior appropriately.
I've not tested this on Emperor yet, but in theory it should work, build a 2nd warrior and buy the 3rd.
It's ok if AI's army come one unit at a time. It's when they all come at once that's the problem we want to avoid.
After AI suicides it's military, one should able to take their cap with 3 warriors.

is there something I'm doing wrong by waiting on horsemen/swordsmen and using them to conquer the nearest civ?
There's nothing wrong by trying to conquer the nearest civ asap, it's just different players have different approaches.
I too like to conquer the nearest civ if the opportunity arise, for all victory types. Hopefully you'll find some useful tips.
I learned to better manage "harvest" when I made the jump to Emperor (chop to 3 pop for new cities, chop for military).

In the 1st 30 turns, consider the following:
  1. How to get 3 cities by turn 30
    • build one buy one: as soon as pop gets to 2, start on Settler. Get the cash by selling lux, or breaking deals (works on higher difficulties where AI has tons of cash)
    • build one steal one: initial warrior + scout to wonder around AI cap till their settler pops up.
    • build one faith one: CAP has faith tile (try for religious settlement, but if you can't get them, then it's a huge setback)
    • build one capture one
  2. Determine the distance of AI
    • search for "Woods" and look for lumps of them on the map.
    • settle the 2nd city near horse resources (improve them asap, with builder from CAP or HUT or rush buy), settle the 3rd city with lumps of Woods (save cash to buy tiles).
      • if your horse city happens to have lots of Woods, you can settle the 3rd 4 tiles away from AI cap on the opposite side of where you plan to start the assault. Let the city rebel.
    • save all your Governor points for lv3 MA (req complete Gov't Plaza)
    • to hit FASTER and HARDER, chop out horses (measuring stick t50 ~ t60), never hard build horsemen in the early phase,
    • take down one of AI's new satellite city without wall,
    • rush buy catapults at captured AI city, horsemen can pillage first while the catapult travels.
  3. Find other AIs
    • Economic: Ideally, you want to have another trading partner while you are attacking the target.
    • 1st Golden Age: try to have a spare unit exploring the map during the warring, in case we do not wipe out the CIV entirely before entering the new era.
  4. Tech
    • if there's a +3 or higher campus site at the Capital, it might be worthwhile to beeline Writing.
    • majority of your early Science are from population and pillaging.
    • if your target starts on campus district, just beeline Horseback riding (get your science by pillaging).
    • if you target has wall, after HBR beeline Catapults, CAP can hard build wall for the eureka.
After you've one civ joining your empire, with 5 or more cities, you can set new goals depend on the victory conditions at around t70.
The pros are you've strong military strength and won't be pushed around, the cons are there's 3 Governor points invested in MA and not as much cities if expanded peacefully.
 
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Even better than that:rotfl: use the lens filter and settle the cap right next to an AI's cap, DOW and fortify the Warrior appropriately.
I've not tested this on Emperor yet, but in theory it should work, build a 2nd warrior and buy the 3rd.
It's ok if AI's army come one unit at a time. It's when they all come at once that's the problem we want to avoid.
After AI suicides it's military, one should able to take their cap with 3 warriors.
This is extremely risky.
I haven't played on Emperor in several years now, but on Deity this is more or less an auto-loss for the following reasons:
  • You don't know where the AI is, and searching for it with your warrior or settler will cost you at least 10 turns on average, if not more. This is time you simply don't have to spare, because every turn you spend searching (and walking towards) your neighbour sets you back this many turns in terms of invading.
  • On Deity at least, you will most likely lose your capital on loyalty this way. On Emperor you might get away with it, but it sets up a very bad precedent in terms of opening strategy that won't translate to higher difficulties, while at the same time leaving you vulnerable to a dark age (which will lose you the capital in the classical era).
  • You don't have the gold to build a warrior that soon on an average start. If you want to invade, you have to hard build these units. You might get additional gold from selling a settled resource and selling it, but it's never a guarantee that you will be able to, and definitely not something you can base your strategy around.
 
There goes my weak attempt of trying to be funny :xmascheers:

This is extremely risky.
I agree, it's one of those high risk high reward speed-run strategy. The plus side is we don't need to be worry about walls, getting an early AI CAP and their cities (2 more on diety) with good resources. The down side is it requires many "prerequisites" to be able to pull it off. It is definitely not a strategy to start off from turn 1.

Due to the variety of game setting and starting location, the only thing that we can be certain of is there is no definitive answer.

I saw this gambit awhile ago, and thought it might be interesting so I tried it myself. My view on opening strategy is, I have plan A, B C on the back of my mind. With more map, surrounding information I get every turn, I can re-evaluate and adapt. For example, plan A would be to develop peacefully and settle 3 cities before turn 30. But if the starting location has both snow and desert tile on turn 1, then I would move my settler (~5 turns) around to look for a better location. By the end of turn 5, if I have not find a better location, and sees a friendly neighbor such as Gandhi, then I can consider plan B, setting next to him and leverage the situation to my advantage (take him out before elephants start roaming). If the neighbor is Nubia, then I will consider plan C by manipulating diplomacy and turn other AIs against her.
  • Loosing 10 turns is not that big of a deal, if it means we can leverage the opening start for a better empire situation at t30, t50. There was a 1 vs 7 PVP challenge on the Chinese CIV VI community, where players have to settle on turn 1 and wait 30 turns before starting. On paper, one would think the player with the 30 turns head start would assimilate enough tech/military advantage to overwhelm the other 7. But it's not necessary the case in practice. Sometimes the 1 win, sometimes loose. Most of the time, the player's chosen strategy (to balance science/culture/military/economic) well over-compensates the lost turns.
  • Our capital also exert loyalty pressure against AI's cap as well, as long as we don't hold growth, in most cases it doesn't effect that much. Depends on the terrain, we do not necessary have to settle 4 tiles from AI. If there are flat lands and our warriors are able to move in quickly, then it's a good site. And keep in mind we're aiming for a quick elimination of AI cap, as soon as we do that, the loyalty mechanism will immediately work in our favor (that's why I said not to worry about revolting cities, it'll flip back to us without any military investment). In terms of era, I agree, ideally golden age is the best option. However, the worst is normal age. There are strong dark policy cards for dark age, and there are some sound strategies around those.
  • How do we get the 3rd warrior out in a rush? Another alternative is to chop them out. If from turn 5 to turn 10, we see a CS or the target AI, then we can snatch off a builder from them. If not start builder as the 1st city build, and beeline mining and chop 2 warriors out. There are many solutions, the goal is to get the AI cap before they get their UU or walls.
A failed strategy does not necessary translate to "an auto-loss." It is just a failed attempt to speed run the game, imo. Even loosing our cap doesn't necessary mean we cannot lag it out and win later. Might be an ugly win, but a win is a win :snowlaugh:
 
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As a disclaimer before I comment any further here, I will add that I usually play on Deity/++ with rather random settings (tech included), and don't try to reroll or reload to cook my starts/game if I can avoid it. I pretty much never speedrun either, and this colours my view as this mandates that I play with somewhat flexible openers that are hihgly consistent.

A failed strategy does not necessary translate to "an auto-loss." It is just a failed attempt to speed run the game, imo. Even loosing our cap doesn't necessary mean we cannot lag it out and win later.
This I don't necessarily agree with.
I don't know how whether or not this strategy does work on Emperor or not (it might very well do due to less AI cities), but on Deity or above, this is so risky that it is essentially increasing your chances of a loss (even though it might pay off if successful).
Settling your capital close to the enemy city cluster sets you up to lose it on loyalty very early, and there's not always something you can do to mitigate that.
Had several games before where the AI settled their 3 city cluster right at my doorstep, and those games I just had to give up as there was no way I could get enough loyalty quick enough, and no way I could win a war quick enough either.
This was one of the few exceptions I had to save scumming, and even with that "tool", there was just no way.

I would not recommend a strategy like this for our new Emperor player here, as it just teaches some very bad habits that a player (that probably isnt looking to ever speedrun the game) should avoid.
The problem in this scenario is that you do not know where your neighbour is from turn 1, so you also have to look for them in order to settle at their doorstep.
And while being 10 turns behind isnt necessarily a dealbreaker, it does make AI walls arrive sooner, which is what I think the OP is struggling with (as its a common thing to struggle with at the Emperor level).
 
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