malapropisms and other misusage

[GerrardCapashen]

I have to agree with Pillager that there are two l's in allot. There's no word 'alot' in my dictionary.

 

[Sultan Bhargash]

I thought so, Pillager, but was too lazy to look it up. Score one for the mother country...

 

[Pillager]

I thank you.

Challenge me at your peril.

 

[onejayhawk]

Originally posted by Sultan Bhargash
Irregardless, Switch, it's in the dictionary so it ain't wrong.

When Tolkein wrote LotR, people criticized his use of "dwarves" instead of "drarfs." In the Oxford English Dictionary at that time "dwarfs" was given as the plural form. Tolkein's reply, "I wrote the OED.", which was, at least in part, true.

I would like to get a Spanish native speaker's opinion here. When you read Don Quixiote for the first time, did the language seem odd? Canterbury Tales, written about the same time, is almost impossible to read without assistance: parallel text, footnotes, prior experience with early English etc.

J

 

[jpowers]

Originally posted by ejday

But this is English! We Americans contributed with a bluesy "aint no," but we can't hold a candle to speakers of the King's English, the guys that invented the instant tepidizer "not un--"!

The difference is that 'not un-' is supposed to mean what it grammatically entails. The 'ain't no' is supposed to be a negation, but grammatically should be a positive. This is a not unimportant distinction.

 

[jpowers]

Originally posted by onejayhawk

When Tolkein wrote LotR, people criticized his use of "dwarves" instead of "drarfs." In the Oxford English Dictionary at that time "dwarfs" was given as the plural form. Tolkein's reply, "I wrote the OED.", which was, at least in part, true.

When you can demonstrate mastery of the language as Tolkein did, you are free to coin new terms and create irregular pluralizations. Some half-wit that can't pronounce 'nuclear' does not have permission to make up words like 'revengeful' or 'misunderestimate,' even in jest.

 

[jpowers]

Originally posted by cromagnon

@jpower, I take it you're a teacher...

I have been a teacher in the past. I am eternally a student. I am currently a researcher in the private sector.

 

[jpowers]

Originally posted by ejday

Heck, I used to be a real snob about English use myself until I realized that language evolves with society. The process has been going faster lately but it's really par for the course. If the language snobs always had their way, we'd be walking around sounding like we'd stepped out of the Canterbury Tales. Charming, maybe, but not very useful.

It is absolutely true that every living language changes over time. The critical question is the reason for the changes. Is it because our current vocabulary is overloaded and we need new ways to express more ideas? Or is it simply because we are ignorant speakers and writers who feel it is easier to add a few lines to the dictionary/grammar rather than look at what's already there?

 

[jpowers]

OK, 5th in a row, but W is really p*ing me off:

subscribe does not mean ascribe.

 

[Pillager]

There's a difference between an evolving language, and just plain laziness and disregard to basic grammatical rules.

For example, the use of 'cool' to mean good. That could be considered incorrect, but is more an example of how meanings of how words can change. However, to use an earlier example, 'penultimate' does not mean 'ultimate'; that's just a mistake and not an example of an evolving language.



Another annoyance:

E.g. does not mean 'that is', and 'i.e.' does not mean 'for example'.

 

[Supernaut]

I was in a training course this morning, and we were told that there 'is an ownership on you to do' what we were talking about. I _think_ she meant 'onus', but you can never be too sure these days.

 

[D.Shaffer]

Personal Pet Peeve.
Cavalry = Man on a horse
Calvary = The hill where Jesus was crucified.

 

[Sultan Bhargash]

It is funny that people are misspelling things in a thread devoted to correcting English.

Like onejayhawk's "drarfs", or D. Shaffer's "Cavaly".

And nice to see J Powers on a tear- you don't post enough!

 

[ejday]

Originally posted by jpowers
It is absolutely true that every living language changes over time. The critical question is the reason for the changes. Is it because our current vocabulary is overloaded and we need new ways to express more ideas? Or is it simply because we are ignorant speakers and writers who feel it is easier to add a few lines to the dictionary/grammar rather than look at what's already there?

Good points.

As for the dictionary? I suppose that depends on whether you're writing for Oxford or Encarta. For the latter, consider the source.

Jpowers, I agree that ignorance is a factor in the evolution of language, it always has been, but I think there are two other factors that are just as bad:
1.) Technological progress. Interestingly, just for grins, I checked Webster's New Riverside (office edition, '84*) and found that they have "floppy disk." Now when was the last time somebody actually used a 5.25" "floppy disk"? It was in common use for a while, and technically correct at the time, but now it's a vestigial term -- used most often when talking about a 3.5" hard-shell "high density disk." It's interchangable now, but there was a time the difference was significant. Now the dictionary is carrying this archaic word...
2.) Advertising (a linguistic purist's unholy terror). This has got to be the worst of the bunch. They're promoting mangled-English jingles, catch phrases and tag lines.

Individually, IMO, these two factors are perhaps more damaging than ignorance or casual use alone. Of course ignorance will make an appearance with these factors as well, compounding the problems as terms are used out of context.

Unless you have another solution, I think the best we can do is log the changes and roll with it.

*I'm at work as I post this and I don't have a newer dictionary within reach. Updated versions may have changed or dropped the "floppy" word.

 

[yaroslav]

Originally posted by onejayhawk

I would like to get a Spanish native speaker's opinion here. When you read Don Quixiote for the first time, did the language seem odd? Canterbury Tales, written about the same time, is almost impossible to read without assistance: parallel text, footnotes, prior experience with early English etc.

J

Well. Good question. In fact, there are some words that are strange and old-fashioned to us, but we can read it without too much problems.

There are only a big problem: ortography. It has changed since Cervantes wrote Don Quixote. For example, there was many words that we wrote with x in the past and now we write with j.

For example:

Don Quixote -> Don Quijote

There are a few words, like Texas and Mexico, that are written with x even today, but we pronounce their x like j.

But, if you adapt the ortography there will be no problem at all. Even without adapted ortography we could read it, but it is somewhat strange (altough not too much).

As a side note, you can read El Quixote on

www.donquixote.com/english [English Version]

www.donquixote.com/texto [Spanish Version]

 

[Furry Spatula]

Originally posted by Pillager
I thank you.

Challenge me at your peril.

sorry, i was wrong. I shall admit i was wrong. No if you'll leave me alone I'd like to crawl in a hole and die

 

[Pillager]

Originally posted by Furry Spatula


sorry, i was wrong. I shall admit i was wrong. No if you'll leave me alone I'd like to crawl in a hole and die

Apology accepted.

 

[D.Shaffer]

Originally posted by Sultan Bhargash
It is funny that people are misspelling things in a thread devoted to correcting English.

Like onejayhawk's "drarfs", or D. Shaffer's "Cavaly".

And nice to see J Powers on a tear- you don't post enough!

Let us discuss this lovely thing called 'correcting one's post'

 

[Czarina]

Originally posted by Supernaut
I was in a training course this morning, and we were told that there 'is an ownership on you to do' what we were talking about. I _think_ she meant 'onus', but you can never be too sure these days.

At least she didn't confuse "onus" with an anatomical term, as I've heard (at work, no less! )

 

[jpowers]

Originally posted by Supernaut
I was in a training course this morning, and we were told that there 'is an ownership on you to do' what we were talking about. I _think_ she meant 'onus', but you can never be too sure these days.

That was either sublime or ridiculous.