Mali....

[Hannabir]

This is really a nice surprise. Many of us have advocated selecting Mali for one of the Civ3 expansion packs. That did not happen, but it appears that they did not forget. And who knows, Ethiopia might be in as well.

 

[antonio]

Hope Ethiopia is in.So happy Mali is in just makes everthing more balanced cant beleive it hasn't been in before.I mean its one of the most important civs of the middle ages.

 

[.Shane.]

Would the Moors be a legitimate consideration?

 

[mitsho]

the Moors aren't really a civilization, are they? Better say the Berbers, Morocco or Cordoba than Moors which also sounds to me a bit racist.

(honestly, just a name change). But I prefer Mali over them nevertheless

mitsho

 

[.Shane.]

the Moors aren't really a civilization, are they? Better say the Berbers, Morocco or Cordoba than Moors which also sounds to me a bit racist.

I have never ever ever in my life heard that the term "Moors" is racist. I'm not well versed in Western Mediterranean history, but I remember reading in multiple places about the "Moors invading Spain" or the "Spanish driving out the Moors".

 

[mitsho]

Ok, then it's just the German language, at least in Switzerland it's the old equivalent of 'n i g g e r'! (so it's just a linguistic problem and I excuse myself..

mfG mitsho

EDIT: I thought that this word will be censored, so I wrote it differently. (it's not meant as an racist remark, but just to show. The censoring of this word shows quite good what I meant... )

 

[.Shane.]

Ok, then it's just the German language

Ah, ok, yes, in the US, the term "M**rs", well, most people wouldn't even know what you're talking about.

Since this is an international forum, what term would be more appropriate?

 

[mitsho]

I have no idea, but since probably every word is racist in some place of the world (I could imagine), it'd be better to call them Moors (since this is a English forum).

and really, it's a word which isn't in use anymore here.

 

[Kosez]

Mali, Ethiopia, Songhai. Hoped for one of them. I'm quite happy now.
BTW: What about Egypt?

 

[mitsho]

Egypt is more culturally similar to states like Israel, Phoenicia or later Greece, etc. It's a mediterannean civ (like Carthage). Of course, it has its ties with (Inner) Africa, but yes.

That brings me to a subject: What culture groups do we have now?
Middle East: Arabs, Babylon, Persia, Mali
Mediterannean: Rome, Greece, Egypt
Asia: Japan, Mongols, India, China
European: England (or whatever), France, Spain, Germany, Russia
American: America, Native American, Aztecs

That sums up pretty well, and still makes some sense (Mali suits better in the Middle East group than Zulu, but yes... )

mfG mitsho

PS: sorry for the OT-stuff

 

[spacedragonblue]

I just finished studying Mali 2 weeks ago. They were very cool and pretty powerful. I agree that they should replace zulu. BTW, I came up with something as an example of their wealth: After Mansa Musa made his pilgrimage, there was so much gold circulating in the muslim world it took 10+ years for a full recovery of the gold market.

 

[Ivan the Kulak]

I agree that Mali makes a better African civ, if you are playing on a world map w/historical start locations then it makes much more sense to use Mali, they will hopefully expand into southern Africa and be a much worthier opponent in the long run.

 

[Elponitnatsnoc]

Thing is- Mali could account for the two other civs in the area- Songhai and Ghana. I saw Kumbi-Saleh in one of the screenshots which was the politcal capital under the Ghana empire (jenne-jeno was also there- the trading capital) . I have no recollection of it being important to Mali.

Another interesting thing about Mansa Musa- on the way to Mecca, he stopped in Cairo and gave 1 gold bar to every citizen in the city. As a result, the economy of, then, Egypt plummetted because everyone was suddenly rich

 

[player1 fanatic]

I don't know much about Mail, but how and when their civilization declined.

 

[Chazbagel]

Is there a mali city called Cherokee? or is there minor civs ? or what ? I saw a city called Cherokee, and Alexandria.. (Egypt is in, not a surprise)..

 

[Aion]

@mitsho: I don't think 'Moors' is racist. Moor is 'Maure' in German, which is a completely neutral expression. You are referring to the racist (though old-fashioned) 'Mohr', which is etymologically related but just a different word.

 

[CoolioVonHoolio]

well ive learned alot about the malis. and one question is still nagging at me. what will their UU be? it puzzles me...

 

[Xen]

while the name is no where near assured, it woudl be most realistic to give them a cheao heavy cavalry replacement for the knight; of course, it just as likelly that the'll be given the Byzantien treatment, and stuck a F-ing Dromon

 

[Louis XXIV]

Is there a mali city called Cherokee? or is there minor civs ? or what ? I saw a city called Cherokee, and Alexandria.. (Egypt is in, not a surprise)..

Cherokee could be a conquered city. I hope they aren't just making a "Native American" as a tribe (go with Cherokee, Iroquois, or even Souix if you have to, but don't pretend they were all the same).

 

[Cuivienen]

At some point someone counted up the confirmed civs and we had 17 confirmed ones -- and Rome wasn't on that list but is a cert. Therefore, the only American civs are the Americans (hopefully they're European instead), the Inca and the Aztecs.

I'm very glad that Mali is included. I hope to see Ethiopia and Dahomey in expansion packs.