Mandatory Resignation

[Strider]

How is having No Cheat off 'challenging'? It's no different than having it on - either way, we won't cheat. It just makes life easier for us. We can carry a bit of responsibility that we will do our best to avoid cheating intentionally or not.

"We?" You speak for the whole community now? Just because you have a higher set of morals, doesn't mean everyone does. They're could be several, already, that are using the worldbuilder to get a forward grasp of things.

 

[GeorgeOP]

Even if the WB option is turned off, someone could play the game through the end and figure out most things the WB would show. And the "we" he was talking about was probably the "we" that voted to leave the Cheat Option on. It was my understanding that that leaving the CO off would allow people to document what was going on in the game better. Some people, especially with slower computers, said they would not want to be DP if not allowed to use those programs. That is why I personally voted to keep CO left on.

I am sorry it happened Donovan. I have great respect for the jobs you have done to help get this game underway. Being as honest as you were about what happened, I know I trust you to remain a part of this community and participate in discusions when you can. Maybe a position like Governer would allow to continue to be an active member that wouldn't compromise the information you know.

 

[donsig]

PS The one silver lining: Now I should have some time for the Cage Match!

I guess there is a silver lining in every cloud after all.

 

[Swissempire]

Brilliant Idea! Donovan Zoi!, You don't have to leave the demogame forever, but since you already no he world map, you can put the signposts for the names of landmarks! or is that stupid?.... Either way i'm sad to see you leave, and am ever more convinced we need an emergency elction for both Sec of State and Sec of War. I no its not in the constition, but i just think the Tri should be a tri, not a uni or a bi. Its not that i don't trust greek guy, in fact, he's done great!

 

[DaveShack]

Maybe we should make a rule while we're at it to not allow Daveshack to start games for us? It's unlucky!

So much for deciding not to run for Prez so I wouldn't have to create it. We ended up with he who must not be named as Prez, then an acting Prez who didn't have the game, and top vote getter DP has to make the game, and it ends up me anyway.

As I said above (or was that somewhere else ), I have playtested no-cheat ON and autolog ENABLED, and even posted a game in the DP thread. If there is interest in continuing to explore this possibility, I'd be happy to post a new save and the mod which was used to create it, to see if everyone who wants to be able to load it can. It's not all that hard to do.

 

[Nomad Bryce]

After all this talk I must agree with strider! NO-Cheat on all the way! I completely forgot the possibility that anyone, any normal citizen has the ability to reveal all. How big is the citizen registry? Greater than a 100? That means we must all have good morals, every one of us. One man is enough to burn down a building that took a 100 men. One could ruin us. And what a shame that would be if it were in THE MIDDLE OF THE GAME. We have our chance now. We have been plagued with fraud and bad-luck. Lets all take a step back, take a deep breath, and be reborn, anew and without stain.

 

[BCLG100]

No we should not restart, we never had to worry about this in civ3, having cheat on or off will not make much difference to someone who actually wants to cheat as they could just play the game on.

 

[Noldodan]

Maybe we should make a rule while we're at it to not allow Daveshack to start games for us? It's unlucky!

DG5 was the first time Dave started the game off. We had to do three different starts that particular creation day. One had options wrong (and a really great starting loc), and I think the other had the wrong civs. And so the legend was born...

 

[Rik Meleet]

Live with it.
When you don't listen to me you suffer the consequences. So: continue without DZ or restart ?

 

[Ginger_Ale]

"We?" You speak for the whole community now? Just because you have a higher set of morals, doesn't mean everyone does. They're could be several, already, that are using the worldbuilder to get a forward grasp of things.

And I'm sure by turning No Cheat on that will deter them from cheating? Get real - if they are bound to cheat, they'll find a way to cheat. We (oops! I should say "I") can't stop them. How do I even know everyone here hasn't looked at the WorldBuilder? How do you guys know I haven't? You don't. You trust me and I trust you guys. There is a degree of trust here placed in both the citizens and the DP to be honest.

No Cheat will prevent accidental espionage, but it won't completely stop intentional. It'll just be harder.

 

[Chieftess]

And I'm sure by turning No Cheat on that will deter them from cheating? Get real - if they are bound to cheat, they'll find a way to cheat. We (oops! I should say "I") can't stop them. How do I even know everyone here hasn't looked at the WorldBuilder? How do you guys know I haven't? You don't. You trust me and I trust you guys. There is a degree of trust here placed in both the citizens and the DP to be honest.

No Cheat will prevent accidental espionage, but it won't completely stop intentional. It'll just be harder.

From accidential 'cheating' atleast. CTRL-S and CTRL-W are very close together. The same with unintentionally holding the shift key when you press F1 for the domestic advisor. You wind up seeing the replay map. (I thought for sure that thing was temporary back in the day. ) Plus, the replay doesn't tell you if CTRL-Z was pressed, or if CTRL-W was pressed and which resources were added/terrain was changed (the later two would most likely be done very early in the game).

I'll join Rik in saying "We told you so.".

 

[Black_Hole]

I would vote for starting over, we are only 20 turns in and it would be a shame losing DZ until the next DG...

 

[RoboPig]

My solution: DZ should stay out for awhile, he isnt going to remember the map for a month, so he can be let back in during term 3-4

 

[DaveShack]

From accidential 'cheating' atleast. CTRL-S and CTRL-W are very close together. The same with unintentionally holding the shift key when you press F1 for the domestic advisor. You wind up seeing the replay map. (I thought for sure that thing was temporary back in the day. ) Plus, the replay doesn't tell you if CTRL-Z was pressed, or if CTRL-W was pressed and which resources were added/terrain was changed (the later two would most likely be done very early in the game).

The shift-F1 (or is it alt-F1) is disabled if you don't put the cheat code in the .ini file. Not sure what other things are also controlled by that, and for obvious reasons I'm hesitant to go digging and list what they are.

I'll join Rik in saying "We told you so.".

Hey, enough of that!

 

[BCLG100]

But why start over, im with GA it may stop accidental cheating but wont stop intentional. starting the game over would only further make a mockery of this demogame we have started, the president gone, now DZ is out and yes ok if we did restart it he could come back, there is also no reason to stop DZ coming back again when we have the whole map revealed if that is what everyone is worried about.

From accidential 'cheating' atleast. CTRL-S and CTRL-W are very close together. The same with unintentionally holding the shift key when you press F1 for the domestic advisor. You wind up seeing the replay map. (I thought for sure that thing was temporary back in the day. ) Plus, the replay doesn't tell you if CTRL-Z was pressed, or if CTRL-W was pressed and which resources were added/terrain was changed (the later two would most likely be done very early in the game).

Whoever is playing should be on the ball enough to not make that slip up anyways as they need to be following their instructions to the letter and so should be very careful when playing the game.

 

[Strider]

So your saying that sense it's impossible to stop people from cheating, we shouldn't condemn it... and attempt to make it as hard as possible? Hell! Let's just making cheating legal, that'll be the next step on the list.

We achieve more by putting out a strong message that shows our stance on cheating. We make sure that anyone who decides to cheat, knows that if they're caught... there be lynched, flayed, and made into dog clothing.

Peer pressure works better than most other options.

 

[Blkbird]

I have to agree with Strider. "Opportunity makes thieves". There is no such a thing as "absolute security" anywhere, security isn't a breakable/unbreakable dualistic issue.

 

[Donovan Zoi]

But why start over, im with GA it may stop accidental cheating but wont stop intentional. starting the game over would only further make a mockery of this demogame we have started, the president gone, now DZ is out and yes ok if we did restart it he could come back, there is also no reason to stop DZ coming back again when we have the whole map revealed if that is what everyone is worried about.

I have no problem waiting until the entire map is revealed before I return. We can make a decision on that sometime in the future.

In the meantime, I believe that the show should go on without me. In fact, I may not have even run for a position in Term 2 due to my RL schedule, so we shouldn't base any decision on the prospect of my absence.

Sorry for the trouble this has caused, but it looks like we are least getting some debate out of this. We can use what we learned for the next game.

 

[Ginger_Ale]

So your saying that sense it's impossible to stop people from cheating, we shouldn't condemn it... and attempt to make it as hard as possible? Hell! Let's just making cheating legal, that'll be the next step on the list.

We achieve more by putting out a strong message that shows our stance on cheating. We make sure that anyone who decides to cheat, knows that if they're caught... there be lynched, flayed, and made into dog clothing.

Peer pressure works better than most other options.

It's all a question of balancing. Do we want to make it impossibly hard for a small minority to cheat, or do you want to make it more fun for the majority that won't cheat? Your call.

Are we doing this for DZ or are we doing this for the game? And I must say, this discussion is going nowhere. We are obviously divided. We are not going to give up any ground. Let's poll this thing and be done with it.

 

[BCLG100]

So your saying that sense it's impossible to stop people from cheating, we shouldn't condemn it... and attempt to make it as hard as possible? Hell! Let's just making cheating legal, that'll be the next step on the list.

We achieve more by putting out a strong message that shows our stance on cheating. We make sure that anyone who decides to cheat, knows that if they're caught... there be lynched, flayed, and made into dog clothing.

Peer pressure works better than most other options.

We put out that face of the game anyway, putting cheat on or off has no effect on what we do with those people caught cheating. Of course we condem cheaters but for people wanting to cheat restarting the game and clicking no cheat is going to have no effect what so ever.