Mansa Musa on Noble.

[Pangaea]

There are many ways you could go here, but I think your locations are fine. I did settle the cow-gold by the river, so 1N of where you have it, and then farmed the FP right away. Think that hill was a plains hill, which means the city itself gets 2, which is always nice. But it's your choice.

The map suffers a bit from lack of food in stretches of land around your capital, especially east, but you can place cities on the coast. There is no urgency to get these though, as you have the north and there is jungle that "protects" in the south-east. Therefore your next two cities should probably be cow-gold and pig-corn-stone. Explore the coat a bit better too though. I don't recall what was where, but when you're first exploring around you may as well use an extra turn here and there to get to the tip of the land and thus figure out if there is seafood (like west of the river and on the eastern sheep).

There is probably room for at least 10 cities here if you claim the pig-stone and eventually horse, so there is no need for a rush-force. That said, it doesn't hurt to get up a barracks just in case nasty barbs show up. It's a nice building to grow back on after whipping too.

The AIs tech pretty slowly on Noble, so going for Alpha is a fine choice. When I played I did much the same and when I got Alpha about half the AIs didn't even have Writing yet. You'll quickly get ahead in the tech race here, so once you get Alpha it's fine to trade a lot and backfill whatever you didn't pick. Then head for Currency pretty soon, and you're laughing.

Looking at this map there isn't one spot that screams "I'm a GP Farm!!", but you may find seafood up north, I don't recall exactly.

With those long rivers you can cottage to your heart's desire.

You can perhaps put red spot 1E of currently, and thereby get a pretty good production city, provided you can feed it (a little hard to see what is grassland and not). Then you'd get access to the 1 hill west of the river, and all four east of it, plus copper. Not a bad HE spot - if there is enough grassland river tiles to feed the hills. Is 1SE of rice a hill too?

On the east coast the spots kind of pick themselves. 1S of sheep and between horse and clam. If that's a plains-hill, you may settle on top of that, but then you get horse in 2nd ring. After this you can backfill and grab wine (Monarchy happiness) and whatever is up north. Main priority now is to claim and block off the south though, so grab gold and pigs

 

[sinimusta]

I think that people may be too perfectionistic when it comes to GP farms. Early on you can usually work only 2 scientists, which requires just some decent food. Caste system changes that but I'm reluctant to give up slavery and spend a turn in anarchy.

You don't have to have early a perfect GP farm but a temporary site for getting the first guys soon (usually scientists). For a good long-term GP farm I want good food, forests for chopping maybe GLib and National epic and/or decent slowbuild production to complete stuff like that.

Also I think that best way to get Great people isn't necessarily to farm them by running some specialists during longer time but in short bursts. Grow some cities big (and food bars high), start Golden age, run caste+pacifism and starve down big cities by running almost all specialists to get great people fast.

So imo the blue site looks like a decent early GP farm.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

I would actually make red a production city and yellow a commerce city.

why? Red has a lot of plains, which aren't good for cottages unless you have a ton of extra food, which you do not. If the game goes late, it will be a massive production site with levees.

Also, yellow already has great commerce, with the gold. It doesn't have a lot of food (cow and FP), but it's ok. I might settle it 1N, on the hill - get an extra hammer, build a monument first. Grow off an FP cottage for awhile.

 

[Gumbolt]

Normally after a second worker I go for a settler. Barbs won't really be a pain till 2000bc. Perhaps a few warriors before my 3rd city. Usually the second city can build these for fog busting.

I have no idea why you are building a barracks and axe now. I can't even see any Ai cities. Axe rushes are nice but the Ai needs to be 7-8 tiles away. In any case you have room for 10 cities so it seems a bit of a waste.

Skirmishers will be cheaper to build compared to axes. I might of not connected up the copper so quickly so I could get a few cheap fog busters out.

Perhaps start chopping out a settler at size 4. Certainly ditch the barracks.

Grow second city before using gold. Maybe size 3?

Are you rushing this a bit?? You seem to be making a few mistakes already.

 

[belle]

First of all, thank you all for advising me and trying to help me improve the game.
1120 BC
I founded Kumbi Saleh on what it is known as pig/corn/stone area, AKA Blue. why? just to stop Cyrus from taking the place, as he is my nearest neighbor.
After Alphabet learned, I traded few tech to get Pottery, FISH, MYS and HUN.
After that started to work on Monument in Kumbi as Kumbi gonna be a border city and we all want Kumbi Cultue to be high ASAP. getting ready for cyrus culture attack.
we have now 1 more worker, he is building a cottage next to Djenne. the other one building a mine next to Kulbi, maybe too early but didnt want to move him back to Timbuktu area as Barbs are breeding around us. No worries.
I did discovered all the area around my Capitol (sea wise too, as much as possible without a boat)
I DO have a settler ready to go, I just dont know where to settle right now. Its hard to explain where I wanna put it as for the moment Im not sure myself. I want, maybe, to settle just north to Djenne to help Djenne work the cottages I'm gonna build there or maybe south to djenne, help djenne and Kumbi work the tiles. not sure.
Other than that, we have OB with cyrus, elizabeth and Ramesses (which have only 1 city with The Great Wall. Yippie).
we gave Shaka writing as he demanded it. Not the alpha so why not.
we tech CURRENCY as Pangaea recommended.
I'm not sure it was the perfect decision. but at the moment we are 7 turns away from getting it. after that we need BW up asap as we want to settle in the jungle area to stop Pericles from spreading is wimpy towns to that area.
From all this production we get I think we are slowly but surely going for the domination victory. maybe too soon to decide, I guess will have to wait for some religion to spread in our humble area.

So now - Where should we settle the 4th settler? (darn I'll try to upload a pic and a save game now)

Ok here's the map:

Spoiler :

you can see I change Yellow for green so it wont clash with my civ color. I moved green 1N and red 1E as some suggested here. Green is a good commerce city as suggested here, and red is gonna be production city (thank you
AutomatedTeller and Pangaea
The Pink BFC's are where I thought will be a good place to settle an helper city. but I'm not sure about it at all
The blue one is another place for a border city with Cyrus, but not in a rush at the moment.

 

[Gumbolt]

Don't base your expansion on how quickly the Ai expand.

You do know you can whip builds? Granaries? Workers? Settlers??
You only have 2 workers. You are building a 3rd but really this should of been before the settler you just built.

Your capital is working an unworked mine and a lake. In effect 2 unworked tile. It also has no cottages yet. Not good for a bureau capital. Perhaps 2 pop whip granary with Overflow (OF) into worker? 25OF into worker.

I wonder if you should of chopped out more workers/granaries sooner? You have all that forest left. It looks like you have barely touched it since you chopped your first settler. Have you chopped a forest since? 2 workers for 4 cities simply is not enough. 1.5 workers per city is more ideal especially if the cities are not built close to each other.

KS could of whipped monument at size 2. (Still can albeit 3-4 turns too late) You could also set it on building a worker afterwards. With 1 chop it might nearly complete it.

Cancel the desert mine. Poor tile to work. The hill plains was a much better tile and gives 4 hammers over 3. You should be chopping a forest to help with a worker.

Ideally you need 3 quick workers once you have your 4th city. You need cottages in your capital.

I might set up KS after the worker to build a library. You need a city running 2 scientists. I would prefer KS grew rather than stalled on scientists.

Happiness - You are fast approaching a cap here? What is your plan??? Pyramids or monarchy for HR civic.

Overall you have lots to think about. Start using slavery. Start chopping forest more. Build more workers and quicker. Enough from me for now.

 

[ohjames]

Ok, year is 2160BC
My city placement at the moment:

It would have been better to place the blue city on the desert tile which is between/north of the corn/pigs so that you could work both tiles without having to wait for a culture pop. Rather than wasting time on a Monument-which is actually a significant expenditure at this point, given that the city produces so few hammers-you could have already grown to size 4 and two-pop-whipped a Library there. Yes, you miss out on a meagre health bonus from the lack of fresh water, but don't expand inefficiently because of perfectionism!

Cyrus is not even Creative so I'm not sure why you're so worried about him pushing on you with culture. A single Library in Kumbi Saleh is more than sufficient to keep your borders intact.

In general, your goal in early expansion should be to immediately improve and work high-value bonus tiles. If you're not Creative, this means settling right beside resources. Yes, you miss out on a fresh water health bonus by settling away from the lake, but you shouldn't aim for a city like that to reach high population because aside from the two food resources the rest of the tiles simply aren't that valuable. The optimal use of a city like that is to work the two food tiles, run two Scientists, and churn out workers or garrison units. Every time it grows up to 6, two-pop whip it back down to 4.

Re: blocking Pericles: don't bother. It's not a high-value area and you will slow yourself down if you sink settlers, workers, and city maintenance payments into trying to build it up. Let Pericles do that all for you, then take the developed cities by force later. If you settle at those gold/FP and corn/copper sites, you will have more than enough space to get up to 9 or even 12 cities, which is already more than you need, really.

A short-term priority for you should be establishing trade routes (as Currency will more or less double their value). I would recommend researching Sailing next. This will not only help you get your science back up to 100%, it will also allow religion spread into your cities.

Re: 4th settler: I would definitely settle on the copper/rice site and start working those two tiles immediately. Rather than whipping this settler out, consider chopping it, then whipping a 5th settler to settle on that gold/FP site as well. Those two sites are very good and you want to be working the gold and copper mines ASAP.

 

[belle]

Cyrus is not even Creative so I'm not sure why you're so worried about him pushing on you with culture. A single Library in Kumbi Saleh is more than sufficient to keep your borders intact.

You are right. My bad decision.

In general, your goal in early expansion should be to immediately improve and work high-value bonus tiles.

I think now I start to understand the main goals of early settlement. thank you.

A short-term priority for you should be establishing trade routes (as Currency will more or less double their value). I would recommend researching Sailing next. This will not only help you get your science back up to 100%, it will also allow religion spread into your cities.

I never felt like trade routes worth the trouble that much. but anyhow, I'll take that by research sailing next (or BW, not sure yet) and connecting more trade routes with my neighbors.

Re: 4th settler: I would definitely settle on the copper/rice site and start working those two tiles immediately. Rather than whipping this settler out, consider chopping it, then whipping a 5th settler to settle on that gold/FP site as well. Those two sites are very good and you want to be working the gold and copper mines ASAP.

Ok, copper rice can be next target. But do I need to settle a helper city next to Djenne to help with cottage/whaever not worked at Djenne? or at the moment I should just work on expanding and claiming territories. Am I right when I understand that I'll need to settle another city between Timbuktu and copper/rice city?
becuz that's what I'm trying to figure out here.
Last game everyone said my city placement is huge and I should think about getting all those cities closer together, but at the moment everybody recommend me to go to faraway sites.

 

[ohjames]

Helper cities are useful when you need a city to do something other than work its cottages - for example, if you're pumping workers and settlers out of your capital with slavery, but you want it to be a cottage/commerce city. This is not the case with your capital which is in more of a production site. Djenne can probably just work its cottages itself and a helper city isn't a necessity.

The reason we're suggesting such widely-spaced expansion is because your starting area is unusually poor. Normally you don't have to push out so far to find high-value tiles. But it's better to spread out a bit in order to work high-value tiles than to stay compact if staying compact means you'll be stuck working mediocre tiles.

Getting your trade routes up won't take any additional work since you've already explored the coastline. Your cities will go from +2 commerce (from domestic trade) to +4 or +6 each, which is pretty substantial, and more importantly, an immediate benefit.

You won't need to settle a city in between Timbuktu and the copper site. It's something you should do eventually, but since there aren't any high-value tiles in that area, you can get to it later once higher priorities have been dealt with.

 

[elitetroops]

There's a really good spot 3N1W of capital that you haven't marked. It makes a great early production city that you can get up to speed quickly borrowing wheat from cap. Already at size 4 it can give you 13 base hammers with cow, marble and 2 grasshill mines. As it also hooks up marble, this means for example 6 turn oracle without chopping/whipping. Then there's still something to chop for larger wonders. And if you can let it keep the wheat while cap is working other tiles (for example riverside cottages), then it makes an excellent worker/settler pump.

 

[elitetroops]

I played my own attempt to 1120BC for comparison:

Spoiler :

This is by no means perfect play from my part. You can for example see that Djenne just grew into unhappiness...

I put Kumbi Saleh 3N1W on the production site. As predicted it is quickly a decent city that adds a lot to my empire. By 1120BC I have one more city than you. I'm a bit further from currency, don't know if this is because I have researched more on the way. I guess it is rather because my economy has been slowed down by more whipping.

However, the main effect of this more aggressive whipping (more workers, more settlers, more infra) you can see in the upper left corner. You make 28/turn with slider at 80% and +1/turn. I'm looking at 40/turn with same slider setting and same gold surplus. The skirmisher build in Timbuktu is also just temporary for this screenshot to get a comparison with yours. At the moment Timbuktu is really building research, which lifts my /turn to 50 and I'm 7 turns away from Currency like you. But after currency I will be running away with almost double the science output.

My two settlers in production will go to copper/rice and the other to settle right on top of silk for fish/clam/wine city. With Moai that city will be extremely powerful! After Cur it will pe Priesthood-Math-CoL and oracle in KS for CS. I'll get Priesthood first and partially build the oracle so I can quickly complete it earlier (for a worse tech) if some other AI gets Priesthood. By the time I'm done with that, stone should be hooked up and I'll chop out the mids, also in KS. Timbuktu just started running a couple of scientists and I don't want to contaminate that GP pool with any wonders but TGL, which probably will be my next goal after CS.

 

[Pangaea]

I played my own attempt to 1120BC for comparison:

Spoiler :

Timbuktu just started running a couple of scientists and I don't want to contaminate that GP pool with any wonders but TGL, which probably will be my next goal after CS.

@elitetroops

Spoiler :

Does this mean you intend the NE in your capital? Loaded up my game at 1AD and see that is what I did too. First GLib and then almost finished the NE in Timbuktu. Don't recall all the plans from that save, but some wonders are being built for failgold, though I expect the Pyramids was a late actual attempt. I finished the Oracle in 1320BC though, and have never gone "deep" into the tech tree for fear of losing it altogether. A bit different on Noble as the AIs are in quicksand compared with Immortal, but oh well.

Here is the map in 1AD. It shows iron and a bit more of the land, so don't check it out if you don't want any spoilers.

Spoiler :

I see things were far from ideal, but I played it fairly quick for my standards. And Noble AI is so slow you can get away with almost anything. Even picked an early religion here, and employed some "middle finger diplomacy", ie, take your demands and shove it up your arse

 

[elitetroops]

@elitetroops

Spoiler :

Does this mean you intend the NE in your capital? Loaded up my game at 1AD and see that is what I did too. First GLib and then almost finished the NE in Timbuktu. Don't recall all the plans from that save, but some wonders are being built for failgold, though I expect the Pyramids was a late actual attempt. I finished the Oracle in 1320BC though, and have never gone "deep" into the tech tree for fear of losing it altogether. A bit different on Noble as the AIs are in quicksand compared with Immortal, but oh well.

Here is the map in 1AD. It shows iron and a bit more of the land, so don't check it out if you don't want any spoilers.

Spoiler :

I see things were far from ideal, but I played it fairly quick for my standards. And Noble AI is so slow you can get away with almost anything. Even picked an early religion here, and employed some "middle finger diplomacy", ie, take your demands and shove it up your arse

Spoiler :

I played this a bit further, but am away from home for the weekend and can't post screens.

NE in capital it was. I usually find this the best option if it is my intention to end the game quickly after lib, which means that there's not much need for other great people than scientists. A separate dedicated GP farm feels more important in a space game where specifics are needed for corporations or chained golden ages. In the latter case I would possibly have put it in the silk city.

After I got those next 2 settlers out the ball really started rolling. By 1AD I had 9 cities like you, was getting >170 /turn with slider at breakeven, had built oracle, mids, TGL and MoM and was one turn from music and the Great Artist for my Golden age. First 2 great scientists I had used for academy in cap and the second one I just settled because I was too lazy to figure out how to use it and I knew I'd have a ton more of them coming during the GA.

From there I pretty much stopped microing and quickly bulbed my way to libbing MT just to see how soon I could get there. Got it in 475AD, only to realize I was still missing HBR and only one AI had researched it so far and didn't want to trade, so had to spend one more turn teching before I could start pumping out cuirs. None of the AI were even close to longbows yet, so I think the remainder of the game would have been the definition of a roflstomp.

Didn't play it out though. Maybe I will if I'm really angry some day and feel like burning a few dozen cities..

Regarding your game, I'm not sure if building failgold is a very good idea on noble as the AI is so slow to research or build anything... But you are right, you can get away with almost anything. I never gave in to any demands. I did trade for any tech they had which I didn't have. Never gave them alpha or anything better though. I think Writing got me most of the techs I had missed.

 

[Pangaea]

Spoiler :

I played this a bit further, but am away from home for the weekend and can't post screens.

NE in capital it was. I usually find this the best option if it is my intention to end the game quickly after lib, which means that there's not much need for other great people than scientists. A separate dedicated GP farm feels more important in a space game where specifics are needed for corporations or chained golden ages. In the latter case I would possibly have put it in the silk city.

After I got those next 2 settlers out the ball really started rolling. By 1AD I had 9 cities like you, was getting >170 /turn with slider at breakeven, had built oracle, mids, TGL and MoM and was one turn from music and the Great Artist for my Golden age. First 2 great scientists I had used for academy in cap and the second one I just settled because I was too lazy to figure out how to use it and I knew I'd have a ton more of them coming during the GA.

From there I pretty much stopped microing and quickly bulbed my way to libbing MT just to see how soon I could get there. Got it in 475AD, only to realize I was still missing HBR and only one AI had researched it so far and didn't want to trade, so had to spend one more turn teching before I could start pumping out cuirs. None of the AI were even close to longbows yet, so I think the remainder of the game would have been the definition of a roflstomp.

Didn't play it out though. Maybe I will if I'm really angry some day and feel like burning a few dozen cities..

Regarding your game, I'm not sure if building failgold is a very good idea on noble as the AI is so slow to research or build anything... But you are right, you can get away with almost anything. I never gave in to any demands. I did trade for any tech they had which I didn't have. Never gave them alpha or anything better though. I think Writing got me most of the techs I had missed.

@elitetroops

Spoiler :

170 at breakeven is impressive, I'm far from such numbers. You're probably right about failgold, it will take a looong time till they get there, but I had kind of shut off at that point and stopped playing at 1AD. Was so far ahead in techs too, and I'm pretty sure I just gave them some elementary techs for some weasly Egypt have a 1-city empire, guarded by 1 warrior... He'd probably whip some proper units if I DoW-ed, but still. It's pretty absurd to see compared to how quickly the AI get Axes and worse on Immortal. One can get away with just about anything here. In that sense it was pretty fun to play, and it's strange to think that I was actually struggling at this level back in the day. Also goes to show that when you get the basics right, you'll quickly move up in difficulty levels. If you read this, OP, that will certainly apply to you too

 

[elitetroops]

@Pangaea

Spoiler :

Egypt had a 1 city empire in my game too, though he was twice as scary with 2 warriors guarding it.

170/turn by 1AD is certainly not normal for me either. But here I actually tried to do my best to make good decisions and careful micro up until then. I'm always working to improve my early game and this seemed like an interesting excersice to just work on the economy with no outer threats to worry about.

[Edit: and to be fair the 170/turn was kind of a cheat as I had a settled GS, which would not have been the optimal move at that point of the game, though it boosted /turn with >20 with rep, academy and library...]

Like you, I also find it very strange to think that once this level was difficult. It's just a matter of getting a few basic concepts right, then you quickly move up in levels!

 

[elitetroops]

Not sure if OP is still around, but here's a screenshot of my 1AD empire:

Spoiler :

I don't understand why so many here were against early pottery. I went pottery before writing, cottaged cap and Djenne asap, and built granaries first, then whipped libraries. This cap won't become any super strong late game bureau cap, but being FIN, getting a few early riverside cottages up will speed up our teching a lot.

 

[dmd175]

also not sure if OP around but very nice set up and goals

So, we have few goals for this game to achieve before we could announce it was a successful game:
1. work on City placement. I'm trying to study and improve my city placement.
2. successfully create and work a SE city
3. work on diplomacy. Decide which civ's are bad and which ones are good as early as possible.
4. decide which way I'm going to win the game as early as possible.
5. Win the game before 1880. time to work on our turns schedule.
6. and last, but not least, work and learn more about civics.

1:

Spoiler :

I tried to keep up micro with the others above and was about 5-10% off their level ~turn 100.

Tech path: like others, Ag/BW/AH, but then b/c Noble I detoured for Myst for SH, then like Elitetroops I did Pottery for tons of cottages at Djenne (same site) and capital. Afterwad did writing, math, mas, curr, fish, sail (for Colossus), then Alpha. Probably should have alpha'd sooner but otherwise was happy with the path.

Empire at turn 100:

Spoiler :

3, 4, 5:

Spoiler :

I did commit by turn 100 to do #4 and 5, which is something I need work on.
--wanted to go for conquest
--plan was Pericles assault immediately. picked him because close, easy, and would gain a religion.

Spoiler :

--met Eliz shortly thereafter and she demanded convert to Buddhism which I did, and thus the world was divided among religious lines: Buddhism, Charly alone in Confu due to Oracle, and Russia/Carthage/Zulu in Judaism.
--after capping Pericles with 11 axes, turned west for Persia, which became a fertile Western outpost. (in retrospect after knowing the map would have been nice to turn east and clean up Charly)
--went for conquests with swords then mace then rifles/knights then cav. did it almost without siege because of tech lead. clearly MM is near gamebreaking (it's also very nice to play noble after playing monarch and feel like that I've improved. it was a great game getting one vassal after another.
--Pericles->Persia->Egypt peacevassaled->Russia->Zulu->Carthage->England->Charly
--some people capped after 1 city (Shaka, surprisingly) and Cathy after 2, whereas Carthage and Persia would not give up until more than half captured

Good learning game. Appreciate any feedback re micro/tech/game plan (I know Djenne went into unhappy in empire screen). Going to try the scenario Europe at 1000AD now.

 

[elitetroops]

also not sure if OP around but very nice set up and goals


1:

Spoiler :

I tried to keep up micro with the others above and was about 5-10% off their level ~turn 100.

Tech path: like others, Ag/BW/AH, but then b/c Noble I detoured for Myst for SH, then like Elitetroops I did Pottery for tons of cottages at Djenne (same site) and capital. Afterwad did writing, math, mas, curr, fish, sail (for Colossus), then Alpha. Probably should have alpha'd sooner but otherwise was happy with the path.

Empire at turn 100:

Spoiler :

Detouring myst for SH is not horrible with this much land and so many cities to come, but then you should make sure you get it! I see 2 monuments in production, which implies you didn't. Early alpha seems to be very strong on noble as you get complete monopoly on tech trading. When no other AI gets alpha for a very long time, you can get a ton of techs by trading the same tech, like writing in my game, to every single AI. When you get alpha here you should immediately try to trade for everything that the AI has, just avoid giving them alpha if possible.

You mentioned you researched Sailing for Colossus. Sailing was a good choice, but for coastal traderoutes. Colossus is not worth much on a map like this. You'd be better of building other wonders.

Why are you building monument in Kumbi Saleh? The city already got it's border pop, which it didn't even need as all relevant tiles were workable before it.

You managed to settle Walata in the only tile next to copper that cannot work a food resource without a border pop... Food in inner ring should always be your no.1 priority for the early cities if leader isn't creative!

Other than Walata, Niani is the only city you settled differently than I did. I put it 1E so it picks up rice and wine, a few more land tiles for production and faster Moai and it doesn't have any ocean tiles in BFC. Most important though was that it could work the rice immediately for immediate growth. Then chop for quick monument and workboats. It doesn't matter that it is on top of silk, that's not a very good tile anyway. Usually when it comes to calendar resources, I rarely think twice before settling on top of them (except banana).

About your improvements: riverside cottages should be prioritized over dry cottages. A riverside cottage starts with 3C, while a dry cottage starts with only 1C. If you ever plan to use one of the strongest early game civics, bureaucracy, then cottages around capital should also be a priority. Also, cottages need to be worked to improve! It seems you aren't even working the FP cottages around Djenne.

Niani should aim to get that workboat out asap - it should work the 4H PH mine, not an unimproved seafood.

There's a worker on the desert hill next to Walata. That's a useless tile, no need to improve at this stage. Also, when you don't have any food next to Walata it will take ages for it to grow and you don't need 2 workers there. More important would be to get a mine 1S of cumbi saleh and to build cottages south of cap and on the last FP north of Djenne.

 

[dmd175]

@Elitetroops
Big thanks for the careful review of my screenshot and the feedback. This helps me learn why I couldn't micro as well yours and some other posts

Detouring myst for SH is not horrible with this much land and so many cities to come, but then you should make sure you get it! I see 2 monuments in production, which implies you didn't.

alas, lost it by ~3 turns. Should have chopped more.

You mentioned you researched Sailing for Colossus. Sailing was a good choice, but for coastal traderoutes. Colossus is not worth much on a map like this. You'd be better of building other wonders.

Why are you building monument in Kumbi Saleh? The city already got it's border pop, which it didn't even need as all relevant tiles were workable before it.

breaking wonder/builder habits slowly...
good point on Kumbi Saleh, I can't explain why it was building a monument, maybe I started it before library pushed out culture but that would still be wasted hammers.

You managed to settle Walata in the only tile next to copper that cannot work a food resource without a border pop... Food in inner ring should always be your no.1 priority for the early cities if leader isn't creative!

also breaking, generally successfully, desire for a full 21 square BFC

Other than Walata, Niani is the only city you settled differently than I did. I put it 1E so it picks up rice and wine, a few more land tiles for production and faster Moai and it doesn't have any ocean tiles in BFC. Most important though was that it could work the rice immediately for immediate growth. Then chop for quick monument and workboats. It doesn't matter that it is on top of silk, that's not a very good tile anyway. Usually when it comes to calendar resources, I rarely think twice before settling on top of them (except banana).

I still have to learn more about when it's ok to settle on tiles vs. work them (assuming not the case to settle on to save from nearby AI, etc)

About your improvements: riverside cottages should be prioritized over dry cottages. A riverside cottage starts with 3C, while a dry cottage starts with only 1C. If you ever plan to use one of the strongest early game civics, bureaucracy, then cottages around capital should also be a priority. Also, cottages need to be worked to improve! It seems you aren't even working the FP cottages around Djenne.

One can tell alot from a screenie! I think I was prioritizing production in capital and Djenne for axes for the Persians. And avoiding food b/c happy cap.

Niani should aim to get that workboat out asap - it should work the 4H PH mine, not an unimproved seafood.

I was trying to grow first and haven't done the math but WB earlier may allow faster growth.

There's a worker on the desert hill next to Walata. That's a useless tile, no need to improve at this stage. Also, when you don't have any food next to Walata it will take ages for it to grow and you don't need 2 workers there. More important would be to get a mine 1S of cumbi saleh and to build cottages south of cap and on the last FP north of Djenne.

Thanks, still have a lot of MM to learn.

 

[belle]

wow, sorry for not replying. i didnt had much civ time lately, but I'm sure I'll find soon and show my progression. Beware!