Map Scale Changes During Game

?

  • No Way!

    Votes: 21 30.9%
  • Sounds good, but don't waste time on it.

    Votes: 18 26.5%
  • This should happen!

    Votes: 29 42.6%

  • Total voters
    68

jalapeno_dude

AKA Panda Judo Eel
Joined
Dec 12, 2003
Messages
5,210
Location
Taxachusetts
During the course of many years, the area of influence of a civilization changes, from only influencing nearby villages to citystates to empires. So wouldn't it be cool if this happened in Civ 4?

You would start on a small map reprsenting the surrounding region, which would gradually get larger in scale as your influene increased.

This would also be a great modding tool- you would be able to make campaigns!

What do you think?
 
I like the idea, I'm just not sure how feasable it is.
 
Too many ways to screw it up.

If you convert the smaller map to the larger map at a less than 1:1 squares ratio, you're going to end up with screwed up city placement and missing cities.

Would smaller maps be allowed to overlap? For instance, Germany and France in historic placements on a Europe world map. Would the maps be the same map, completely seperate maps, or maps where only a portion of them is present on both maps? How do you deal with the consequences of each, such as too much conflict or not enough conflict in the earlier ages, or being able to only partially interact with another nation.

In short, it sounds really just gimmicky to me.
 
It sounds sort of more Age of Empires-y than I'd want to play. Also how would you go through to the larger maps and what would happen if the AI got there first, they might settle on your position in the larger map.
 
Every Era the scale could change. E.g. change 4 cells into one. This way the world gets "smaller" with every era. Ofcourse in some way cities which are too close have to be merged together automatically.

This prevents that very early in the game everything can be known already.
Every era a new optimal situation occurs. No optimal city placement for the whole game. You have to adapt (and to grow) over the whole game.
 
I like it. They just need to get it working, then the modders could do the rest...
 
Several things:

1. In the early game, when civs are very isolated, will there be n different maps, where n is the number of civs? How will the scale grow? it may be complex when one civ, in the Medieval era, whose single tiles represent 4 ancient tiles?

2. How about in this case:

FM
GH
F = Forest
M=Mountain
G=Grassland
H=Hills

What will the Mid. age tile become if these are ancient tiles?

3. Somewhat on the lines of #1, consider this: You are in the Modern age, and an adjacent civ is back in the ancient age. Their tiles would be 64 tiles by 64 tiles.
 
He means (I think), imagine you zoomed into a world map, the hills on that are represented by a hole region of hills, grassland here and there, some rivers but mainly hills, When you zoom out a little, you can not see the hills in much detail as it was before you zommed out, so now you only see some hills in a group. You zoomed out again, now all you can see from the hill region is nothing but just 2 hill tiles.
 
Nice idea. Would nicely model the change in distances between ages.

Taken to extremes (which I'm not sure is a good idea mind!), it would effectlivly split the each game into a series of levels (one per age).

You start off with on a large scale with your stone age tribe. maybe meet some other stone age tribes, etc.

Then on the onset of the next age, everything gets "consolidated" and zooms out, and you're now operating with wider horizons (roughly continental) I guess.

Then when you get to the modern age, everything goes global.

Not sure if this would be desirable. But then, it maybe. It could be pretty cool.
 
OK, though I am still deciding on the merits of this specific idea, one thing I think SHOULD be incorporated is having each civ being at the CENTRE of their respective game maps! Its only as the game progresses that they get a true sense of where they are in relation to the REST of the world!
Back to the original thread, though, I think that it would be good if it works the way I'm thinking! That is, when you start the game, your immediate area takes up the entire map! Then as you explore and expand your horizons, the extent of the map also changes to reflect it! Done right, I think that this would work well, and I think Soren or another Firaxis person has mentioned bringing this into Civ4!!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.
 
This would definately be interesting to try, like on the scenarios as in the rise and fall of rome ones in c3c. First stage is in the mediterranean area, then it pans out and shows some europe and west asia or more during the fall of rome scenario, then you could develop a modern map which would of course be global.
 
It’s something like this I’ve been longing for so I think it’s a good idea. Think about the following scenario: You have succeeded in being a super power and no one of your neighbors are a real threat anymore and the game become rather boring to play. If you at that moment could change the scale of the map and other nations appeared and you had to face a new super power, that could be very interesting.

I never played Civ II – Test of Time but I think that game had a feature like this, anyone who remembers that?
 
How about if we implement a feature that allows us to zoom in and out. So if we zoom in on a city we could discover that it's actually to adjacent cities with surrounding neighborhoods, and then farmland. This way your map would simply expand throughout the game and you would be able to zoom out farther, their would be no consolidation of tiles.
 
I recently had the chance to play the Napoleonic scenario in C3C. I liked the idea very much once I had started with few exceptions. The biggest problem I found was the map. With cities too close, production was a pain and nearly every pop center overlapped 3-6 squares. Cities that had existed at that time in history had to be skipped because even though the map was size huge, there still was not enough space to squeeze everything in with more than rudimentary historical accuracy. This got me to thinking, a dangerous prospect under the best of conditions.
I once played a board game called 'War in Europe'. It was basically a WW2 modular system with brigade to divisional size units. It was a bear to play and a minimum of 6 people were needed just to set the campaign map and units up in less than 12 hrs. It took up a garage size room when finished and took 100's of hrs to play. The one thing the game offered was its modular system.
The system broke the game down into individual operations, allowing you to start with just the Polish/German map, add Norway later, then France and the low countries, then Britain and so on. While I played the C3C Napoleon scenario, it got me to thinking about what could be a viable, easy way of making a computor map bigger. Rather than worrying with different zooms, why not just split a map into 4 sections that can be accessed through the mini-map.
For example, let's say you want to do WW2 in Europe with all of the geography that was actually used + extra for 'what if' possibilities? Using C3 as a model, it couldn't be done except on a very basic level. But what if the existing huge map was increased to 4 times it's size and put on to the mini-map so that each section was separated by ie. red lines, Calling these sections 1(NWest), 2(NEast), 3(SWest), and 4(SEast). During play, the map would be accessable by section. Section 1 might have part of Great Britain, part of France,the low countries, maybe Denmark and Norway and a small slice of Germany-Section 2 might have Sweden, Finland, Northern Germany, Poland, etc. and so on. As you play the map and cross over from one section to the next, the change to the new section would be no different than the present screen change that already exists when you move any unit. You could also select any section from the M-Map and scroll it like a huge map during game turn play, moving from section to section as needed. In a randomly generated game, actual play could start (and end) on one section (Depending on how many different cultures were allowed and what the victory conditions were) but you could expand to the other sections if necessary. By incorporating it this way, you basically have 3 (or more) additional maps the same size as the one you start on as back-ups for when your CIV goes 'Global'. The other sections wouldn't be accessible until you 'crossed the edge of the world' through whatever sea or land units you sent out. It would drastically change the entire concept of world expansion or 'Age of Discovery' without complicating the programability.
It would also allow wonders to be spread out-for example- on an Earth map, Forbidden Palace would not be available to Europe (section 1) but to Asia(section 2). Instead, Europe would have The Palace at Versailles, which would serve in the same fashion. Sun-Zu's War College would, in Europe, be Machiavelli's treatise. Both would offer the same benefit. Both could be built, serving only the building Civ within that culture. There are numerous other possibilities. Each different culture would have access only to wonders that were actually built by that culture with equivilants available where they could be found. The mixing and matching would make some wonders unavailable to some cultures, solving the 'indigenous wonder' situation by programming cultures and wonders to individual map sections.
The difference for game play is that your map would be 4 times larger (or 6, or 8, or even 10) than what is presently offered by C3 and so your ability to spread cities out in scenarios is improved. The technique would also allow scaling and manageability, not to mention an increase in map size that would offer a vaster range of more accurate historic scenario possibilities. Magnification would work pretty much the same as it ever has because each section would actually be its own map...
 
Wasn't it mentioned somewhere by Firaxis that the cIV map would be zoomable from a global view all the way down to an aerial view of your cities? I would take this to mean that you'll use a more 'regional' view in the early part of the game, but it would become necessary to zoom out more and more as the game progresses. I'm guessing that this also would mean the maps can (and will) be larger?

@estrongblade: yours is not a bad idea, but I think it's wrong for Civ.
 
I like the way Aussie_Lurker decribed it but I'm not sure if that was the same way jalapeno_dude meant it. The zooming of the map doesn't refer to the map overview box btw but to the map where you move your units on, Darwin420.
 
@hyronymus:

I understand that... I was pointing out that the main map (where we move units, build cities, etc...) was said to be zoomable from global view down to inside your city (or just about). Kind of like on the main map in Civ3, you have two levels of zoom, the 'local' view, and a more strategic view. cIV seems to have more options on that.
 
Yes, I know that you meant that but I don't get why you came up with it because I don't see how it fits as a reply to the previous post. But that could be a problem with translating it on my side ;).
 
Speaking of all this, I think that the way timescale gets reduced should be revamped so that a turn could be a month, a week, or even a day when you get to modern times.
 
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