Discussion in 'Civ4 - Map Scripts' started by cephalo, Feb 17, 2009.
Nah don't worry about it. If you see it alot let me know. It's really not supposed to happen.
ok, no problem. this mapscript is far too enjoyable to bother about something so minor anyway.
btw, got any more improvements on the line or is it complete? I remember you wanted to include some erosion code to have more jungle but it didn't turn out right so you went with a different approach, but I also seem to remember you had some other idea coming. or maybe I'm mistaken.
a revamp of the way toroidal is handled would be definitely appreciated, since right now it happens fairly often to have most of the landmass in the polar region, which means most of the land is unusable snow.
I also love the way toroidal is handled in ErebusContinent, where the ice clumps mostly in the central polar region, simulating a cap and eliminating the ugly ice strip, while the climate gradually gets a little warmer on the sides, resulting in a snow to tundra transaction that looks really nice.
right now I'm playing cylindrical and having a lots of fun, but I love toroidal maps and if they turn out to be 100% fine I'll definitely switch to that. thanx for the greatest mapscript ever cephalo
Well, I've considered PW complete about 6 or 7 times... I'm happy with the current version pretty much, but I've already made some improvments on Arrakis.py in the Dune Wars mod that would apply to PW. I think I'll wait for a few more improvements before digging back into PW.
For toroidal maps, you might try to place a margin on one of the poles. I have a system in place for that, but I can't remember exactly how it works anymore. You can use it to make a clean break in continents, or simply to diminish continents.
uh, I am really illiterate at python. does the margin mean that you can specify an area in which land should not appear, to make sure that the polar regions are water ( actually ice ) only? that would be pretty cool.
Yes, exactly. You can set the margin on any edges of the map or across the middle, and there is an adjustment for how much it will lower the altitude. Ah, don't worry about it. I'll put that on my list of things to do.
thank you very much, I'll be waiting. in the meanwhile, my sheaim will be having lots of fun turning a perfect world to hell terrain
one thing I've noticed today while generating 4 or 5 maps to see how the script behaves with "allow pangeas" : "Start in old world" does not seem to take into account 1-tile sea separation from the main landmass. it occurred twice that I had one civ start on a smaller continent separated from the mainland by a 1-tile water separation. unfortunately, I forgot to take screenshots. nothing major, but it's kind of annoying to have one civ start separated from the others, considering that this option should make sure this does not happen.
In this regard, 'coast' is considered land. The new world is meant to be reached by the ocean going caravels. Somtimes you can get there with tririmes if your culture borders can extend far into the ocean, but that's alright I guess.
I had to work hard to create a continent map that considered coast as land! There's alot of code dedicated to this.
EDIT: Another issue that may come up is that sometimes the map takes the form of multiple smaller continents. For example lets say you have three similar sized continents that are roughly 33 percent of the land space each. The biggest will be automatically selected for the old world, but the rule is that 60% of the map needs to be old world. It will then select randomly from the remaining continents to fill that space. As soon as the size of the old world is bigger than 60%, the process stops and the unselected continents are assigned to the new world. In this way, you may end up with two(or more) distinct and separate 'old worlds'. Multiple 'new worlds' also happen fairly often, moreso than multiple 'old worlds' actually.
oh, I see! ok, everything's fine if it's working as intended. it's not an issue with the mapscript anyway, it's just that the AI is still not very smart with boats in FFH. hopefully that will change soon, cuz I love to have multiple continents separated by ocean. thanx for the quick reply cephalo
HEy sorry if this question has been asked but i'm just wondering, would this map script work on mods that add new terrains and/or new resources? I'm just wondering if this map script will be compatible with Rhye's and fall of civilization.
BTW great work with this map script, i love the realism and all maps that i play are from this map script
Resources are handled generically, but terrains are not. For a mod with new terrains you would have to decide what level of rainfall and temperature they will be found, and then make a special version of PW to handle it. It is not that hard to do however.
RFC has marshes, right? search a couple pages down in this thread, TheLadiesOgre posted a version with marshes added in.
Yeah, but the marshes aren't a new terrain type, just an "improvement."
I found this thread today while at work and I actually went home early to try the map because it sounded so cool
...but unfortunately I'm quite disappointed. I really like the approach, but the results, as far as I see after about 10 generated maps, are very cool to look at, but not very playable.
-almost every continent has a massive mountain range in its center, or a massive stretch of desert, often both. While looking cool, this is in game terms just a whole lot of useless terrain
-even strategic resources like marble are clustered. This doesn't make sense because nobody in their right mind would ever trade marble or stone to anyone
-on standard size I started isolated on a small continent which consisted of like 70% ice and mountains four times in a row. In general, there are way too many isolated players. This seems to improve on large maps
-too many New Worlds! The AI can't handle colonization, it doesn't have a strategy for it. I bet that most games will end in a chaos of at least a dozen puny colonies...
well, it seems like tundra being adjacent to desert can indeed happen. attached screenshot
edit: generated another map, and again there were a couple tundra tiles adjacent to deserts. considering they are just 2 in an entire map though, it doesn't bother me. just pointing map that it can happen, in case you're interested. btw, it's really awesome to see how easy it is to customize the map, the results can vary wildly
...have you actually tried to play on it or have you only looked at it? Because... it plays pretty well, just not 100% like stock Civ4 strategies (but then, you wouldn't expect to play on Archipelago like on Terra2, right?). Let's see:
Useless terrain? Well, this is one of the reasons why maps are larger - a standard.sized PW2 map is larger than a standard-sized Terra map - it compensates for the added "flavour terrain". Plus, only mountains are truly useless - the rest just means you get a bit more suboptimal city placements, but so does every player, so it evens out (and when the terrain is good, it really shines).
...and then they don't get strategic resources back. The AI seems to trade iron etc. - you just need to be willing to give something like a strategic resource in return.
That's true - PW2 really starts to shine around Large-ish. But on smaller maps, you can usually compensate by fiddling a bit with the settings (allow pangeas etc).
Use the BetterAI mod, it improves naval understanding of the AI massively.
Also, play it first to get a feel for it - this said, your mileage may vary depending on your playstyle - I'm tend to have slightly builder-ish tendencies and Noble is the difficulty setting where I'm usually sure I can win in a casual fashion, above that I either need to be lucky or need to really plan.
say ... is it possible to succesfully alter PerfectWorld using normal Notepad? or is Notepad ++ extremely easier?
and to my next question, I went to the Notepad ++ site to download it ... but it all seems so confusing. Do I really have to replace Notepad files in 4 different directories? in the correct order??
And if so, it certainly didnt seem to have four different downloads, only one download which I was supposed to place in all four directories. If this is correct, tell me please
I tried to, but after starting on an isolated ice rock three times in a row I lost patience and only generated some maps in debug mode. But I think I will give it another try with a large map. I may also try to use a higher number of civs with New World off because I really dislike the New World concept.
I play Emperor by the way, playstyle varies. Sometimes builder, sometimes warmonger, sometimes diplomat, all victory types are about equally represented in my Hall of Fame
You can use normal notepad. But chances are that you will do it wrong, because Python is indentation-sensitive - a misplaced tab can screw things up. In notepad you don't see tabs, in notepad++ you do (and a lot of other useful stuff, like you see the lines, comments are colour-coded... it is much easier to navigate).
Only one download (the page just has different formats for those who don't want the automatic installer) and it's a new program, you don't overwrite your old notepad. Just click here to download the installer and install it.
Ah, that may change things, of course, because you probably get more of an eye for good spots, bad spots etc. - I probably spend too much time tinkering with various aspects of the game and enjoy different mods too much to progress as a player...
one last question: would it be easy enough to add a "force pangea" option that makes sure the mapscript generates a pangea-type map? just curious cuz I've seen it in Tectonics, actually I've found out that upping the land percentage to 50% in pw2 generates pangeas with very, very, very interesting shapes. so interesting that navies and ocean trading technologies are actually useful even if it's a pangea!
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