[Vanilla] Mapping Civilization VI (Base Game up to the SEA DLC)

[Guandao]

@bite The Mapuche map may be the toughest one so far.
Most of the Mapuche city-names I've seen in the first look aren't actual settlement names, but the names of regions.

 

[Verified_Confection_Being]

@bite The Mapuche map may be the toughest one so far.
Most of the Mapuche city-names I've seen in the first look aren't actual settlement names, but the names of regions.

So take the geographical centre point, or the modern capital of those regions?

 

[bite]

@bite The Mapuche map may be the toughest one so far.
Most of the Mapuche city-names I've seen in the first look aren't actual settlement names, but the names of regions.

I look forward to the chalange

 

[bite]

Just a quick question has anyone seen the Taj Mahal built in one of the new streams (not its wonder video)

 

[Zaarin]

Just a quick question has anyone seen the Taj Mahal built in one of the new streams (not its wonder video)

Quill18 started it in his Netherlands game, but he didn't get close to finishing it.

 

[Phrozen]

I look forward to the chalange

The place names are hard, the territory isn't.

 

[pgm123]

What's the source on that? The map I've seen for the period in question is a lot smaller (doesn't go as far east).

The Taino are even harder than the Mapuche to pull off, the Taino language is not that well attested, despite contributing loanwords to Spanish/English/etc. I guess they could've picked a related Arawakan language, but South America would be without a new Civ then (I don't consider the Caribbean part of SA). I would have thought Firaxis would pick Anacaona as the leader, even though we don't know too much about her.

There was a really interesting Reddit Askhistorians podcast episode on the Taino. I learned a lot, such as the idea that they might not have really existed in the way we think they do (the Spanish may have lumped together different groups under a barely applicable term).

Politically, the modern Caribbean has stronger ties to North America, but the indigenous people of the Caribbean were more closely related to South America (though they may have colonized southern Florida).

The crop barrier between Florida and Cuba honestly surprised me when I learned of it, given how physically close they are. I had always assumed southern Florida would have likely acted as a cultural extension of the Caribbean. We don't know much about the Tequesta, but they don't seem to have been similar to the Taino, etc. They didn't practice agriculture, eat sweet potatoes, etc.

 

[Phrozen]

What's the source on that? The map I've seen for the period in question is a lot smaller (doesn't go as far east).

That is from UNPO with modern day cities put in showing the Mapuche and the tribes that were culturally absorbed into the Mapuche around the 1800s.

 

[Zaarin]

The crop barrier between Florida and Cuba honestly surprised me when I learned of it, given how physically close they are. I had always assumed southern Florida would have likely acted as a cultural extension of the Caribbean. We don't know much about the Tequesta, but they don't seem to have been similar to the Taino, etc. They didn't practice agriculture, eat sweet potatoes, etc.

Yeah, not much is known about the indigenous people of southern Florida, except that they weren't as advanced as the Calusa, who weren't as advanced as the Muskogean Mississippian satellites in north Florida. I've read some theories that the southern Floridian Natives were Caribbean colonists, but without better knowledge of their language(s) (which will never happen without a time machine) it remains just a very, very tenuous theory.

 

[pgm123]

That is from UNPO with modern day cities put in showing the Mapuche and the tribes that were culturally absorbed into the Mapuche around the 1800s.

Oh, that makes more sense. I was looking at the 16th century. But I think there's a good chance I only got a modern map of the Mapuche because it looked awfully similar to this.

 

[Verified_Confection_Being]

The place names are hard, the territory isn't.

So it’s a map produced by a third sector organisation giving voice to underrepresented peoples?

The people who made that are gunna be administrators listening with open ears to an agenda of history by the Mapuche, and I highly doubt they have the time or experience in digging around for a factual basis to draw that map from. They haven’t even provided references.

They might as well have shaded the entirety of South America for how useful that map is

 

[chronoturner]

I haven't checked it out yet in detail, but this website might provide some help.

In addition, this map could also provide some help.

Spoiler Mapuche Map :

Although, again, I'm not sure how much help these two can provide, but they may help a little, so that is what matters.

 

[Verified_Confection_Being]

I haven't checked it out yet in detail, but this website might provide some help.

In addition, this map could also provide some help.

Spoiler Mapuche Map :

Although, again, I'm not sure how much help these two can provide, but they may help a little, so that is what matters.

So that’s an interesting website. They are a flag making organisation, dipping into “maps”. I would suggest an outlook on historically visuals developed through maps would predispose someone to accept an image at face value for its truth, especially if that means it would sell easier.

I see three names attached to this map, none recognisable, rather internet handles, and it’s made by combining to other maps.

What’s more it completely accepts the fact that this map also covers “araucanized natives”. It looks to me like this map demonstrates by perhaps the lands of the Mapuche, and on the of that, perhaps the lands of their close allies, the lands of those who call themselves Araucanian, the lands of those who call identify with a group that is classified as Araucanian, their neighbours, those whose history has been lost and assume from local legends around Lautaro they are of Mapuche descent, etc

It’s probably what Firaxis will use though

 

[bite]

There will be a new thread next week when the new map goes live, but I just wanted to take a moment and thank everyone with their help putting this all together and sharing it with people who like it

 

[Guandao]

What's the source on that? The map I've seen for the period in question is a lot smaller (doesn't go as far east).



There was a really interesting Reddit Askhistorians podcast episode on the Taino. I learned a lot, such as the idea that they might not have really existed in the way we think they do (the Spanish may have lumped together different groups under a barely applicable term).



The crop barrier between Florida and Cuba honestly surprised me when I learned of it, given how physically close they are. I had always assumed southern Florida would have likely acted as a cultural extension of the Caribbean. We don't know much about the Tequesta, but they don't seem to have been similar to the Taino, etc. They didn't practice agriculture, eat sweet potatoes, etc.

I'm definitely aware that the Pre-Columbian Caribbean was more culturally/linguistically diverse than what is commonly assumed. Here's a link to a Wiki page detailing non-Arawakan languages in the Caribbean. It's a shame so little of these non-Taino languages have survived, but not surprising since they were encountered by Europeans in the 1500s.

Yeah, not much is known about the indigenous people of southern Florida, except that they weren't as advanced as the Calusa, who weren't as advanced as the Muskogean Mississippian satellites in north Florida. I've read some theories that the southern Floridian Natives were Caribbean colonists, but without better knowledge of their language(s) (which will never happen without a time machine) it remains just a very, very tenuous theory.

Do the Timucua count as a "Muskogean Mississippian sateillite"? I thought their language was often classified as an isolate. Or do you mean people like the Apalachee, who definitely spoke a Muskogean language? Other indigenous peoples on the Mexican Gulf Coast have been theorized to originate from the Caribbean as well. The Karankawa of Coastal Texas were one of them.

 

[Zaarin]

Do the Timucua count as a "Muskogean Mississippian sateillite"? I thought their language was often classified as an isolate. Or do you mean people like the Apalachee, who definitely spoke a Muskogean language? Other indigenous peoples on the Mexican Gulf Coast have been theorized to originate from the Caribbean as well. The Karankawa of Coastal Texas were one of them.

Yeah, the Timucua and a few others spoke language isolates, but they definitely count as Mississippian satellites. But there were a lot of Muskogean speakers in north Florida as well, including the Apalachee and the Pensacola.

 

[Guandao]

Here's a sample of Mapuche city-names (based on the First Look and Livestream today)

Mapuche
Ngulu Mapu (the capital)
Wente Mapu (found a Wente Winkul Mapu community, unsure if it's the same)
Nag Mapu (the land of the plains)
Puel Mapu (the eastern lands)
Huilli Mapu (means "land of the south")
Pikun Mapu
Pewen Mapu (the land of the Pewen tree)

I thought the Mapuche did have named settlements....They weren't nomadic were they?
Someone will use this as ammunition against their inclusion, saying "SEE! they didn't have settlements like my precious Inca*, so why should they be in Civ!?"

*As someone who took a Graduate level course on the Inka Empire, the Inca city-list in Civ5 was lacking....hopefully they'll make it better when they finally add them to Civ6.

 

[pgm123]

I thought the Mapuche did have named settlements....They weren't nomadic were they?

They were not nomadic, but I don't believe their towns, villages, cities, etc. had names or at least I don't believe any have been recorded.

 

[Zaarin]

*As someone who took a Graduate level course on the Inka Empire, the Inca city-list in Civ5 was lacking....hopefully they'll make it better when they finally add them to Civ6.

*looks at the Egyptian and Arab city lists* I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

[Guandao]

They were not nomadic, but I don't believe their towns, villages, cities, etc. had names or at least I don't believe any have been recorded.

I was expecting Temuco to be part of the Mapuche City-List. But all of their city names so far have Mapu (land).

*looks at the Egyptian and Arab city lists* I wouldn't hold my breath.

Yeah, Tiwanaku will be an Inca city again.... I mean Teotihuacan is still an Aztec city in Civ6. Teotihuacan and Tiwanaku would be better off as City-States.