Masters of Magic

[Tarquelne]

I don't really understand the city attacking penalty for assassins anyway.

I assume that the game's assassins do their work when the enemy is traveling, or on/around the battlefield. Basically whenever things might be confused, or at least disordered.

A city may be easier to enter, but the targets might be much more difficult to get to.

On the Amurites:

I think they're overpowered, if anything. But anyway:

GovAnon:
I'd like to see G.'s training abilities removed from the unit itself (for reasons of balance and micromanagement) and to a building or a "Guild." The building or guild would randomly give some units built or in the city the necessary promotions.

Alternatively, if the mage-type promotions are handed out at a high rate, I think the Amurites should lose some or all of their bonuses to mages. The special thing about them would be that they have so many "non-professional" mages.

Units:
I'd prefer to keep the Amurite mages powerful and not allow much more spellcasting for other units. (I'd rather see minor bonuses or tweaks that are explained via magic, like the Champion idea below.) So I'm not really in favor of xienwolf's basic idea, though I think it's a good way to interpret the Amurite concept. But, again, "anyway":

I like the siege mage idea quite a bit. I think someone should make a module. (I will in the nearish-future if I can find the graphics, and if a module (XML only) will actually be sufficient.)

Perhaps give the Amurite Champion a point of fire damage? Either balance that by a 1 point strength reduction, or maybe by a 2 point defense reduction.

Allow Amurite Arcane barges to start with Spell Extention I, or whatever the promotion is that'd give the Fireball an extra point of range.

Extra fire damage for Amurite ships if they're built in a city with an Alchemy lab?

Allow any great person to be transformed into a powerful mage... or even Archmage? Assummig the tech is available and there's a slot open.

Shadows start with "Charm Person"?

Replace the Arquebus unit with a "battlemage"? They start with Stoneskin and are a front-line unit.

 

[Shatner]

I too would very much like a reduction in the micromanagement entailed by Govanon. My take on how to do this is as follows: Govanon gains the Death 1 promotion, for example, and can now train EVERYONE how to animate skeletal warriors. Huzzah! He goes to a city and uses the "Build 'Teachings of Govanon: Death'" spell the Death 1 promotion unlocked. This creates the "Teachings of Govanon: Death" building in the city which creates the "Magic Instruction: Death" building in every city in the empire. Now, every unit that enters a city or is built in a city gains the Death 1 promotion. Do this again for every other trainable spell of Govanon and you have a sublimely MM-free experience.

If a unit has the Channeling promotion, does that mean they can pick spell promotions when they level up? If so than I would be happy with the "Cave of the Ancestors" building having a 10 or 15% chance of granting channeling 1 and a 5 or 10% chance of granting channeling 2 to units built in that city. That seems a simpler way of making the Amurites chalk-full of casters than giving them a half dozen new UUs.

 

[w. irving]

I like maxastro's idea. maybe just tie it to the cave of ancestors instead; any unit built in a city with a cave of ancestors has an X% chance of starting with the arcane promotion (any divine units that start with this would get faster xp gain, but oh well) then anyone with the arcane promotion can get a sphere I promotion for free when govannon has the corresponding sphere II promotion (maybe just sphere I, but that might be overpowered if he can train all spheres)

If something like this is done i think firebows should lose fire I and channeling II and just get fire II. Channeling II could then be given to some of the national units as was suggested. That way mages don't get overshadowed but high tier units still have decent magical abilities.

 

[Caradoc]

Let me add a plug for Magister's version of Govannon where he is able to gain the ability to Tutor any sphere. It allows you to create some novel units and gives you an incentive to move him to the front lines so as to gain more spells. I also like the way that another unit occasionally gains Channeling 2 or even the ability to teach spells itself.

Too bad that some problems with graphics (and homework) have kept Magister from bringing his mod up to date. I really miss his Govannon and many of the other innovations.

 

[sylvain5477]

Let me add a plug for Magister's version of Govannon where he is able to gain the ability to Tutor any sphere. It allows you to create some novel units and gives you an incentive to move him to the front lines so as to gain more spells. I also like the way that another unit occasionally gains Channeling 2 or even the ability to teach spells itself.

Too bad that some problems with graphics (and homework) have kept Magister from bringing his mod up to date. I really miss his Govannon and many of the other innovations.

Are you MC second account on the forum ?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

No, he is not.

He would not be the second even if we were the same person, as he joined 14 months before I did.

 

[sylvain5477]

So you are his second one...
Anyway just joking.

 

[Caradoc]

What is it they say about great minds?

 

[Rex rgis of Ter]

I never got why Govannon teaches 'dark' spells. In the civiliopedia he seems like a good person, who likes sun, enchantment, spirit magic, not death.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I concur (hence the modmod)

He is obviously described as teaching mostly enchantment, spirit, and body magic. I wouldn't say that sun spells are his specialty, but he does like openness rather than the secrecy of the mage guilds, so I guess it could fit.

 

[MaxAstro]

I concur (hence the modmod)

He is obviously described as teaching mostly enchantment, spirit, and body magic. I wouldn't say that sun spells are his specialty, but he does like openness rather than the secrecy of the mage guilds, so I guess it could fit.

My thought is that Govannon is willing to teach any spells he sees as "useful" to the common man, with no regard to whether the spell is "evil" or not. The Amurites in general spare little concern over the ethics of magic; they are just as happy following the dark arts of the Ashen Veil as they are practicing the holy magic of the Order. As long as their knowledge of magic is greatest, ethics is a secondary concern.

 

[stp]

The problem with any additional Amurite UU with Channeling II is that it would make them even more dependent on Govannon.


Perhaps the arcane magic paths should be decoupled from the good and evil considerations. Using it doesn't mean that the caster worships any god.

The fact that units with Death or Entropy are turned into manes at their death presents a small oddity. What would the soul of an Order worshiping Necromancer turn into?

I do also agree that Govannon teaches everything that seems useful. In such a dangerous world it could be very valuable for anyone leaving the relative safety of a city to be able to summon a defender in case of an attack. Therefore, Govannon teaches Necromancy to help workers and others to defend themselves.

 

[xienwolf]

I also agree that it is just silly to limit what type of spells are available in each sphere based on whether the God of that sphere has fallen or not. These aren't people who are accessing that magic through the god, they are doing it themselves, and thus can remain pure or fall all on their own.

 

[Mewtarthio]

Then again, the only Arcane magic that carries a penalty is Death magic (which was actually stolen from its god) and Entropy magic (which brings the world closer to destruction). The Overcouncil can also ban Shadow magic, but only because they gain power by subjecting everything to all-encompassing, Panopticon-esque scrutiny wish to keep things out of the shadows and in the light, so they can make their judgements with wisdom and clarity.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I like the idea of making spells that depend on alignment.

I don't think you can have a good entropy spell though; the good form would still be Hope. I'm not so sure about good civs using evil spheres, since most are actually the opposite of what they represent. Should Chaos mana allow Peace spells?

Fire of course makes sense for good civs, since many fire angels are still holy.

I think that Good Spheres being perverted is also appropriate. Laroth comes to mind, since he used Spirit magic (the sphere of the extremely good Sirona) quite wickedly. Evil spirit mana involves controlling enemies emotions, putting them so far in depression that they kill themselves, or even ripping their souls out to forge magical weapons out of them.

 

[Ur_Vile_Wedge]

I thought sorcerous magic (as opposed to divine magic) was drawn from the infinite elemental planes that Agares created so he could keep on creating. If that is so, why should the alignment or the status of the primal Angels matter at all when it concerns sorcery?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Mortals can only channel magic from their own plane. The Gems of Creation could be used to access the infinite planes, but only for the 3 spheres whose gems are in human control.

The Gods (and maybe their other angels) also act as conduits for magic of their sphere to enter creation; there presence makes channeling their power possible, and they cannot control who does the channeling or what they do with it. Arawn stays out of Creation specifically so that his power cannot be channeled by wicked mages. Sucellus's resurrection make Life magic available again, which had been absent since Arawns withdrawal.

 

[Mewtarthio]

I know one Gem of Creation is Death; what are the other two?

 

[Algeroth]

Air and Water.

 

[Ecofarm]

Amurite are so awesome.

Now fireballs are 4 str instead of 3!

Tech ether (preferabl being 1st to writing), build 6 mages while teching poison, build a few hunters while bulbing sorcery, build 5 assassins while finishing sorcery, upgrade to mages (wizards), fireball + assassins (with a couple defense hunters). Leave 2 mages at home for protection, kill all with fireball + asn.

This worked on deity "play now" small pangea quick speed in .30. I suppose I'm due for my .31 deity "play now" win

Spoiler :

To the amurites!

Compare this to my other favorite strats:

Calabim (feudalism, order/AV/OO, righteous/malicious/arcane).

Balseraph (festivals, FoL, hidden, empyr for neutral - don't forget some radiant/ratha upgrade while in it, commune).

Those 2 strats are SO late

I don't even know what to do with my beloved Grigori anymore!

No other civ totally pwns like Amurites... deity is dead (all of them) long before firebows on small.