[MERGE] KROME Beta: K-Mod 1.31 and RoM 1.03 Extended

[satrapper]

ah thats a pity, i was hoping it would solve the problem. how do you think it could be improved? shift some religions to different techs? or perhaps disable bulbing of religions? suppose you could prevent great prophets from bulbing techs altogether. /random ideas


@isabel,
yep i'm sure we can all help testing like kiwi lifter says. im just chuffed that youve taken on the commitments since jt put it on hold.

the "hey" popup actually didn't appear. i had a look and i think karadoc created a new cannotconstruct define?? anyway, deleting the "self._setDefault("cannotConstruct", False)" line under the dispatcher class in buggameutils restored the callback to vanilla behaviour (along with enabling the callback in xml).
i suppose this is non-optimal but it'll do me until/if you get around to creating a more elegant solution

i guess as you outlined you've got a decision to make on how to develop KROME. starting from scratch certainly sounds like the cleanest solution. i play loads of kmod and think its getting pretty close to as good as you could wish for and bug free. i dont think anyone would complain if you just stuck with the present 1.35 or the next iteration if you wanted. there's no real need to pile too much work upon yourself trying to maintain a krome modified sdk with every new kmod.

if jtanner sees this as a dead project now that he has moved on to more glamorous things you also need a new thread/control of the OP and main download link for KROME, ideally? if only so that us mere mortals and the lurkers of civfanatics know what is the definitive download rather than digging for patches/fixes. this is a very cool mod merge, i think it needs max exposure.

(edit) damn i should refresh page before posting this post should be before yours.
option 1 hurts my tired brain but looks very shiny! thats a great idea, that ticks both the gameplay and realism boxes. really clever.

 

[Isabelxxx]

the "hey" popup actually didn't appear. i had a look and i think karadoc created a new cannotconstruct define?? anyway, deleting the "self._setDefault("cannotConstruct", False)" line under the dispatcher class in buggameutils restored the callback to vanilla behaviour (along with enabling the callback in xml).
i suppose this is non-optimal but it'll do me until/if you get around to creating a more elegant solution

But the new callbacks defines are just the same than vanilla, but inline (it's faster, and the definitions go in the .h files instead of the .cpp files; like injecting the function definition into others when calling it).
"getUSE_CANNOT_CONSTRUCT_CALLBACK" was not changed by him, since probably he tried to do it but was getting errors. 4 or 5 of the vanilla callbacks are called by the EXE, so changing anything on them would make the game to not load (I learned this by modifying them one by one, so this must be Top Secret since no one ever noticed it XD. It was a bit exasperating).

In fact "getUSE_CANNOT_CONSTRUCT_CALLBACK" is one of those "safe callbacks" that you can modify at your like. But as I said, Karadoc probably didn't want to mess with all that and that's why it's left as default.

As you said, the problem comes from that BUG file! The DLL works as it should be, and the XML defines too.
So we also need to check that file, since all those callbacks overrides are not doing what I would expect. You can safely comment all the callback lines (instead of deleting), and the mod will continue working (even faster, since there are no Python files overriding things like these!) (that's why I say I need a clean version)

Also I already have considered all the development suggestions, is just that I have not had the time to do it right yet.

I think I will be doing this:
Solve these remaining bugs, and add the things commented up to the date.
Create a new download thread.
Don't upload a Clean Mod version yet, but a complete version. I mean, I merge the last KROME version with the patches with the previous considerations. A clean version would come later.
Let users to try it and test, while I work in a clean version. That would give feedback while working with the code, just better.
Then... start seriously with this! SVN and all that...

 

[jtanner28]

I really am kind of amazed that KROME has caused this much of a splash.

I don't consider it to be "dead" per se, just out of my hands. I really do like the direction it is going though. To me it was a "getting my feet wet" pet project. I noticed as I went along though that what I really wanted to do was re-create AND... so I just figured I'd ask if I could just work on it instead!

As far as the religion founding in KROME, what I had planned was to create a new XML tag per leader that gave them a favorite tech and make them the religions. This tag would give them a research bonus for that specific tech. Something like 50% or so. Hence trying to race Isabella to Christianity or Saladin to Islam would be nearly impossible. I never got around to trying to do it though.

Isabelxxx, go right ahead with whatever you'd like to do with KROME. I'm very excited with what you've done so far. Re-building it from the ground up, if that's what you wanted to do, would be very cool.

If you'd like, you can take over the thread or just make a new one. It's cool with me either way. If you want to take over the thread, we can ask a moderator to re-assign the OP on this thread. Either way is cool.

Good luck!

 

[JosEPh_II]

satrapper wrote: ah thats a pity, i was hoping it would solve the problem. how do you think it could be improved? shift some religions to different techs? or perhaps disable bulbing of religions?

The religions are new dead end techs and in my current game they are getting spread quite nicely. I beelined Judaism, and by passed Hinduism in the process,, which allowed an Ai to get it. I think what has been done is fine till more gameplay has been done. Cause I'm not quite seeing what kiwi is I guess. You can get the GP to bulb the next Religion but I didn't think it was bulbing the New Religion giving tech but the Old original religion giving tech. Guess I need to look a bit closer next time this comes up.

@Isabelxxx,
I'm fine with you using this current K-Mod version with RoM ext (ROME) like satrapper said.. And your suggestions/plans are a okay with me too.

And SVN would be super now that I have some knowledge of it thru C2C and AND2.0.

If you're game I'll help beta too! Especially since I've been known to moan and groan about RoM1.03E getting a facelift!

There has been a couple small bugs I have noticed in 0.85b but nothing gamebreaking and not CTDs or Mafs either. Like if at Naturopathy banana shows up on grass or plains you can build a JC there. Otherwise the JC is working on jungle tiles like it should and I have not been able to build it on forest tiles.

Man I can't wait to get Usable Mountains and Multiple Research and Production into KROME. And I'm not picky if they are Options or they are integral parts. Cause I would always use them.

KROME is Alive!

JosEPh

 

[kiwi_lifter]

Krome for me is the perfect combination of speed, great ai, and enough features to create interesting options without turning the game into a giant morass of features.

Regarding the religions issue, I like Isabell's first solution best

Good luck on your new project too, JT!

 

[Isabelxxx]

As far as the religion founding in KROME, what I had planned was to create a new XML tag per leader that gave them a favorite tech and make them the religions. This tag would give them a research bonus for that specific tech. Something like 50% or so. Hence trying to race Isabella to Christianity or Saladin to Islam would be nearly impossible. I never got around to trying to do it though.

There is actually SDK code created to favor some religions to some leaders; not only researching certain technology which gives that religion but also founding specific religions.
Saladin --> Research for Islam, and get as religion Islam even if he didn't found it.
That's exactly like your idea.

There has been a couple small bugs I have noticed in 0.85b but nothing gamebreaking and not CTDs or Mafs either. Like if at Naturopathy banana shows up on grass or plains you can build a JC there. Otherwise the JC is working on jungle tiles like it should and I have not been able to build it on forest tiles.

I think this is related to the way JC are being handled, they are in the modules folder but also integrated by default (!). Well, don't worry this is easy to fix!
In fact I'm happy about how easy is managing this mod (without heavy DLL modifications) compared to COL modding.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Good to hear that.

Down the road there are some things I'd like to see if could be implemented. But I'm gonna hold off on the suggestions till the current list is completed. It's imo better to get the bugs out 1st and then consider new ideas.

You hinted at a new patch?

Don't upload a Clean Mod version yet, but a complete version. I mean, I merge the last KROME version with the patches with the previous considerations. A clean version would come later.
Let users to try it and test, while I work in a clean version. That would give feedback while working with the code, just better.
Then... start seriously with this! SVN and all that...

Is there one coming soon? Or do you need more feedback on 0.85b?

JosEPh

 

[Isabelxxx]

Down the road there are some things I'd like to see if could be implemented. But I'm gonna hold off on the suggestions till the current list is completed. It's imo better to get the bugs out 1st and then consider new ideas.

Could you create a list of all these suggestions, as well as the bugs you have found?

This also applies to any other use, just collect all the bugs, things not working as intended or new simple features (advanced features will be added later) and send me a PM or write them here. So I can easily found them without reading through posts. It would really simplify the work required until I create a new thread for starting the new development.

Is there one coming soon? Or do you need more feedback on 0.85b?

Yes, I'm going to upload a new patch in one or 2 days with some bug fixes.

These are the changes done at this moment:

0.85c

*Just plain Rome 1.03 with K-mod, no other mod-mods; but some features can be enabled as game options:
    *Hard ship mod--> Warning!! Not recommended since the AI doesn't understand the mechanics!
    *Map Decay--> Warning!! Not recommended if you want the best performance in speed terms ( I Will try to move the code to SDK so it does not affect so much performance)
    *Factory improvements--> Were disabled in previous versions, not sure why ??

*Fixed bugs:
    *Jungle Camp could be built in bonuses like bananas even if there was not a jungle in the plot.
    [URL="http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11721097&postcount=110"]*The mini icons for some new resources didn't appear in the city screen.[/URL]

Esentially, added as game options some features which were previously disabled or added and some bug fixes.

And these the things I will make in these 2 days before uploading it:

0.85c
*Game Mechanics:
    [URLSAME="http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11723634&postcount=120"]*Great Prophet appearance modifier to naturally slow GP when a player founds more than one religion in a short period of time.[/URLSAME]

*Fixed bugs:
    [URL="http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11723667&postcount=121"]*Callbacks being overridden by BUG.[/URL]

*Speed improvements:
    *Move part or all the python code in callbacks to SDK, specially the building upgrades code or things like that.

Also I need some comments about what happens with the factory mod. Is it unbalanced? Should I just add it to the game as default (without option to disable it)?
Essentially I would want to hear feedback about things that can be changed in the XML: things that can be work in certain features or bonuses but should not be there (the JC for ex.), unit balance, etc. since these things will be ready to be merged for a future clean release without extra work. Things that require DLL changes will be left for now (except some really simple that I have already written for ex.)

 

[Isabelxxx]

Updated the first post with some explanations about the development and changes.

 

[satrapper]

bugs/suggested changes:

jungle camp: i think the functionality (improvementinfos) should be updated to something like that of RoM 2.9 to allow for new trade route types and changes to yield and resource discovery to bring the odds more in line with mines.

in unitinfos clones and fast workers need to be allowed to build industry improvement

in buildinfos the vanilla(?) workshop improvement is commented out and a new one added that means you can build a workshop on jungle/forest tiles without the techs for chopping either. on a related point, on the tech tree, metal casting (and collosus, workshop,forge) comes before bronze working. surely this makes no sense?


the tech tree could do with some visual work eg the icons on techs such as homo superior or anti-aging medicine are mis-aligned

as kiwi mentioned earlier on this thread, shouldn't the native americans start with hunting instead of fishing? (also what about ritualism instead of agriculture too? it allows them to build totem poles straight away, might make them more attractive as an option. this is predicated on my very fuzzy supposition that farming wasn't a way of life for most NA tribes, please ignore if im talking out my ass)

 

[JosEPh_II]

bugs/suggested changes:

jungle camp: i think the functionality (improvementinfos) should be updated to something like that of RoM 2.9 to allow for new trade route types and changes to yield and resource discovery to bring the odds more in line with mines.

in unitinfos clones and fast workers need to be allowed to build industry improvement

in buildinfos the vanilla(?) workshop improvement is commented out and a new one added that means you can build a workshop on jungle/forest tiles without the techs for chopping either. on a related point, on the tech tree, metal casting (and collosus, workshop,forge) comes before bronze working. surely this makes no sense?


the tech tree could do with some visual work eg the icons on techs such as homo superior or anti-aging medicine are mis-aligned

as kiwi mentioned earlier on this thread, shouldn't the native americans start with hunting instead of fishing? (also what about ritualism instead of agriculture too? it allows them to build totem poles straight away, might make them more attractive as an option. this is predicated on my very fuzzy supposition that farming wasn't a way of life for most NA tribes, please ignore if im talking out my ass)

JC- Agree, especially if by trade routes you are including roads thru RR and beyond.

Industry- agree

Not sure if you like or don't like WS allowed in Forest and jungle tiles. I like diversity

Colossus @ Bronze Working I have no problem with, it should be on that tech.
Forges and workshops at Metal casting I also have no problem with them on that tech.

NA is a mixed bag, NE and canada Hunters and fishers. Main Easter seaboard and SE, fishers, hunters and farming. Central (Plains) Hunters and fishers. SW Farmers and hunters. NW Fishers and hunters.

Ritualism and totem pole not a bad idea.

JosEPh

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Since I can't play c2c I can't work on it either, so would it be useful for me to try and convert some of AAranda's mods to this mod? I was thinking:-

• the stuff that makes the current religions different
• extra religions
• extra units
• extra wonders and buildings

All in a simple modular fashion so people could add or remove them as they wanted.

 

[kiwi_lifter]

As Joseph mentioned, agriculture was limited mainly to the southwest usa.

Regarding Hoskuld's offer, as long as it was able to be an option, I think it's a great idea

 

[satrapper]

Not sure if you like or don't like WS allowed in Forest and jungle tiles. I like diversity

Colossus @ Bronze Working I have no problem with, it should be on that tech.
Forges and workshops at Metal casting I also have no problem with them on that tech.

NA is a mixed bag, NE and canada Hunters and fishers. Main Easter seaboard and SE, fishers, hunters and farming. Central (Plains) Hunters and fishers. SW Farmers and hunters. NW Fishers and hunters.

ah right, it's intentional. i never played RoM before this so i assumed that to build WS on a jungle/forest tile one should have to chop. like vanilla/k-mod.

just to clarify, i don't have a prob with whats allowed by each tech, i just thought the order one researches them should be vanilla-like.

krome:

vanilla:

or as you say, collosus on metal casting, if you keep krome tech order. i'd have workshops further along too though in that case. they seem like they should be further along the timeline to me anyway.

nice explanation of the NA demographics. cheers!

@hoskuld
extra religions and stuff that makes the current religions different would be deadly!

 

[Isabelxxx]

or as you say, collosus on metal casting, if you keep krome tech order. i'd have workshops further along too though in that case. they seem like they should be further along the timeline to me anyway.

I think It would make more sense to just swap some of the things given by those techs instead of the tech itself. Metal casting as concept should be before bronze tech, but some of the wonders or buildings only make sense with more advanced techs like bronze or iron.

Since I can't play c2c I can't work on it either, so would it be useful for me to try and convert some of AAranda's mods to this mod? I was thinking:-
the stuff that makes the current religions different
extra religions
extra units
extra wonders and buildings

All in a simple modular fashion so people could add or remove them as they wanted.

That would be really great, if you can maintain them modular. (I thinke there is a python file in one of them)

 

[JosEPh_II]

Since I can't play c2c I can't work on it either, so would it be useful for me to try and convert some of AAranda's mods to this mod? I was thinking:-

• the stuff that makes the current religions different
• extra religions
• extra units
• extra wonders and buildings

All in a simple modular fashion so people could add or remove them as they wanted.

Actually DH that would be Super if Isabelxxx agrees!

I also d/l'd your subdued animal modmod. I was thinking a slim downed basic version would compliment KROME as an Option.

@Isabelxxx,
DH has been with RoM/AND as long as I have. He's a modder of great skill too and I have the utmost respect for his works and efforts. His collaboration and input would be invaluable imho. And I like him too!

JosEPh

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

@hoskuld
extra religions and stuff that makes the current religions different would be deadly!

That would be really great, if you can maintain them modular. (I thinke there is a python file in one of them)

I was only going to do any stuff if it could be kept modular. It is just the way I prefer to do things. My first attempt at a merge failed so I may have to do some real work.

The only problem I see is that you are using religion specific techs that may break modularity; but that is for later.

Actually DH that would be Super if Isabelxxx agrees!

I also d/l'd your subdued animal modmod. I was thinking a slim downed basic version would compliment KROME as an Option.

@Isabelxxx,
DH has been with RoM/AND as long as I have. He's a modder of great skill too and I have the utmost respect for his works and efforts. His collaboration and input would be invaluable imho. And I like him too!

JosEPh

Subdue animals in RoM and RoM:AND was python, in C2C it evolved much further and was put into the C code. If you have an implementation of BUG that uses its modular Python then it would be possible to add at least some of subdued animals.

 

[JosEPh_II]

I d/l'd it (Sub Animals) from the mods download thread. I didn't take it from C2C. It did have this in the readme.

Since this also contains BUG modular python you will need to add the following line to your Assets/Config/init.xml file
Code:

<load mod="SubdueAnimals"/>

Since I'm a deaf, dumb, and Blind man when it comes to coding anything is this what you're referring to?

And basically I wanted to have the animals in the Mod right now to give XP, Food, Prod, and Science and the possibility of capture. Maybe add in horse, elephant, bison, ibex, and eagles. But no Killer pidgeon's please.

@Isabelxxx,
I'm having trouble with the walls and harbor upgrades. They keep recycling. Build walls then high wall and then walls appears again in the build list. Same for Harbor and Ports. This was a bug in later versions of RoM but I didn't remember it in 1.03. It got fixed but again I don't remember what it took.

JosEPh

 

[Isabelxxx]

Actually DH that would be Super if Isabelxxx agrees!

I also d/l'd your subdued animal modmod. I was thinking a slim downed basic version would compliment KROME as an Option.

@Isabelxxx,
DH has been with RoM/AND as long as I have. He's a modder of great skill too and I have the utmost respect for his works and efforts. His collaboration and input would be invaluable imho. And I like him too!

JosEPh

lol. I know, I know.

I don't play only COL!


I would really appreciate to see those mods here, even I have considered at some point to add them (well balanced) to the core. Since some things fits well with ROM style I think. But that would require some discussion...

About the python code that needs to be merged, I have thought about adding new gameoption in the DLL (or just look for an specific XML entry in Aranda mods with "Try" statement in c++) , check the option in python and then do Aranda's code or ROM according to it
It should be doable if you make the rest.

Subdue animals in RoM and RoM:AND was python, in C2C it evolved much further and was put into the C code. If you have an implementation of BUG that uses its modular Python then it would be possible to add at least some of subdued animals.

I don't see any problem with making it in C++ (just give me the python code) and adding it as a game option. But that should come later, there are still some things to do before adding more things to the DLL.

 

[jtanner28]

Hey everyone!

I asked Isabelxxx if I could post this. It's a new look for KROME. New loading screen, theme, icon, music, etc. I packaged it as an install exe just to show off the new icon.

Download KROME Beta 0.85b Setup EXE

Here's some screen shots:

Spoiler :

BTW, I seriously need to learn how to do those as thumbnails... lol

AND the first person to guess the name and composer of the music gets a cookie. No Shazam!