Micromanagement is alive and well in Civ 4!

Discussion in 'Civ4 Strategy Articles' started by Zombie69, Feb 13, 2006.

  1. mnf

    mnf King

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    Jamppa, perhaps putting down signs would help? Sometimes I have so many signs all over the place I can't see what's on the land. :D

    But I agree with you on more fun. Actually I do so little micro-management I don't think I know what it means. The most I'd do is to switch working tiles in the city screen to shave off turns from production if I really want that unit or building badly. Maybe that's why I'm stuck on Noble. Hm...
     
  2. Willburn

    Willburn Warlord

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    Im having fun micromanaging. Is that a crime? :)

    I would add to micro the tech jumping or attleast maximizing techs the turn you go from a tech with bonuses to research and to a tech with no bonus.
     
  3. -( i )- Mayhem

    -( i )- Mayhem Chieftain

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    I'd say forget micromanaging your cities and go get your gold from your enemies! Don't just stick all your troops together though and stick them on stack attack, you can be much more efficient with your forces if you go check the odds of the fights before starting them
     
  4. Jamppa

    Jamppa Chieftain

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    Thanks for the tips, Roland. :)
     
  5. Zombie69

    Zombie69 Emperor

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    I thought that was fixed in version 1.52? As far as i know, there's no more gain to be made this way. I may be wrong of course.
     
  6. Zombie69

    Zombie69 Emperor

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    One doesn't exclude the other. I do both of course! This is mentioned briefly at the end of my article as being "basic micromanagement"!
     
  7. Roland Johansen

    Roland Johansen Deity

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    According to Requies in this strategy article about research (post 51-52) this isn't fixed.

    Willburn wrote a strategy article called 'Tech jumping' based on this research anomaly which can be found here.
     
  8. Zombie69

    Zombie69 Emperor

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    Thanks for the heads up, i'll add this information to the first post.
     
  9. Willburn

    Willburn Warlord

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    When changing from serfdom to something else make sure to do it after your workers has done theyre actions.
     
  10. Brazenheart

    Brazenheart Chieftain

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    I'm reposting a response of mine in http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=158330, explaining an example where the binary research tactic does not work. Keep in mind that this will probably never happen in one of your games.

    The following quote refers to binary science micromanagement:

    I believe it is possible to lose beakers this way if you have nothing but libraries in your cities and all of your cities produce 10 commerce (or some other number that makes the following calculation work):

    Method 1: Run your sciences at 80% for 5 turns:

    Turn 1: (10 * .8 * 1.25) = 10 science, (10 * .2) = 2 gold.
    Turn 2: 10 science, 2 gold
    Turn 3: 10 science, 2 gold
    Turn 4: 10 science, 2 gold
    Turn 5: 10 science, 2 gold
    Total: 50 science, 10 gold

    Method 2: Run your sciences at 100% for 4 turns, 0% for 1 turn:

    Turn 1: (10 * 1 * 1.25) = 12 science, (10 * 0) = 0 gold
    Turn 2: 12 science, 0 gold
    Turn 3: 12 science, 0 gold
    Turn 4: 12 science, 0 gold
    Turn 5: (10 * 0 * 1.25) = 0 science, (10 * 1) = 10 gold
    Total 48 science, 10 gold

    Because in fact running at 100% is what did you in, in this limited scenario. On the average, any science level except 0% will cause 3/4 of your cities with libraries in them to run inefficiently, but in the worst case it is possible to lose beakers.
     
  11. junior7

    junior7 Chieftain

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    Thanks for all the MM ideas, Zombie69.
    I was interested in the binary science rate and had started to analyse the repercussions in my own game when I saw Brazenheart's update. He is right that 0%/100% is not always optimum but I believe you only claimed 'avoiding wasting fractions' not guaranteed benefit - I believe his quote is from the other thread. Requies technology formula shows your generated beakers receive bonus from knowing civs with tech and having tech prereqs. Of course the formula involves fractions rounded down so can be MM'd. You don't need libraries etc. to MM your science, how about turn 1!

    Example - start game researching Bronze Working
    You will know no civ with tech (for duration probably) and you have the one prereq giving 20% bonus.
    Research formula for this is add 1 to your generated beakers then add 20% so sweet spots are 4,9,14 etc. generated beakers since no fractions lost.
    You will probably want to research at 100% but if on Emperor+, not Organized, no Gold you will need to pay 2g maintenance
    Define BB as Bonus Beakers (after adding prereq bonus) and aBBpT(#g) as average Bonus Beakers per turn while generating # gold per turn for maintenance
    1) 9 commerce
    80% tech rate gives 9 BB and 2 gold so aBBpT(2g) = 9
    0% tech gives 1 BB + 9g, 100% tech gives 12 BB + 0g - combined gives aBBpT(2g) = 9.555…
    But 50% tech is sweet spot giving 6 BB + 5g - combined with 100% gives aBBpT(2g) = 9.6
    2) 10 commerce
    80% tech rate gives 10 BB and 2 gold so aBBpT(2g) = 10
    0% tech gives 1 BB + 10g, 100% tech gives 13 BB + 0g - combined gives aBBpT(2g) = 10.6
    But 40% & 90% tech are sweet spots giving 6 BB + 6g & 12 BB +1g - combined together gives aBBpT(2g) = 10.8
    So the optimum research start for an Emperor+ game (not Organized) with 10 commerce researching Bronze Working (or other tech you have 1 prereq for) is using a combination of 40% and 90% tech rate - what a design!
    3) Similarly 11 & 12 commerce are optimum at flat 90% research

    Of course as game progresses everything changes - 'knowing civs', new tech prereqs, base commerce, bonus science/gold, strategy (not always science focused) - making this MM interesting/challenging/insane (delete as appropriate!).
    My thoughts are that 0%/100% science rate will always give a good return (minimal losses and usually better than flat rate) but it is not always optimum, especially at start.
     
  12. Roland Johansen

    Roland Johansen Deity

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    I must say that micromanagement can go a lot farther than I would have imagined in this game. This is going a bit far for my taste, but I must applaud for your ingenuity.:clap:
     
  13. Zombie69

    Zombie69 Emperor

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    Indeed this would never happen, because like i said in my post, i try to keep commerce in all cities as a multiple of 4. Having exactly 10 science in all cities would be extremely bad micromanagement.
     
  14. Roland Johansen

    Roland Johansen Deity

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    How can you achieve that? I mean, cottages grow and get a higher income. Cities grow and start to use more tiles, some of which produce commerce. New civics and technologies change the commerce production of your cities. How can you continuously keep commerce in all cities as a multiple of 4? :crazyeye:
     
  15. cabert

    cabert Big mouth

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    I'm no mm fan. This being said, when you're in a close game, every bonus is welcome!
    As for the binary science rate, i just want to add my own wisdom.
    No calculations, no rounding down explanations.
    But game playing!

    Every calculation given here, misses one fact : you don't know for sure what you've got in your hands in the next few rounds!

    One example:
    let's say you would need to run 80% or lower science to get even with gold.
    If you use the binary rate thing, you will make it 0% for one turn and 100% for the next 4 turns. Giving yourself some money, and no science after one turn.
    Let's say, you make a deal in the next turn, that can make you up to 90% science?
    You now should go 1 turn/ money 9 turns science, ok. But in fact you probably delayed research 1 turn (against the 80% then 90% option) if you have less than 10 turns research to the next tech.
    Worse : you find a goodie hut in the mean time, giving you money!
    ****, you could have gone 80% then 100% for the rest...
    Sure, the money isn't lost, but science is what you need, not money!
     
  16. Zombie69

    Zombie69 Emperor

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    Junior7, your point is great. I'll add it to the article, and will certainly apply it to my early games from now on.

    A further point to consider is that when you've met a few civs and the formula becomes too complex to handle, it's still easy to maximize your bonus. All you need to do is increase your science rate by 10% a few times, checking the financial advisor between each. As soon as you notice your total science increase by more than your gold per turn has decreased, you know you're at a sweet spot. I'm talking early game here, before your first library.
     
  17. cabert

    cabert Big mouth

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    that's what he calls micromanaging!
    every turn/every city:crazyeye:
     
  18. Zombie69

    Zombie69 Emperor

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    I switch from a hamlet to a cottage and vice versa. I switch from a cottage to a mine or a forested grassland to get both commerce and production at multiples of 4. I swtich from a river hamlet to a non-river hamlet. Seriously, i do this all the time and it's really not hard at all. I'm checking every city every turn anyway (like any good micromanager should), so doing this is not that much more trouble.
     
  19. Roland Johansen

    Roland Johansen Deity

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    No, I understand that it is just changing tiles, but more often then not I wouldn't have the right combination of tiles to get to a multiple of 4 on both production and commerce (without using inferior tiles just to get a multiple of 4).

    By the way, maybe I shouldn't ask this as I'm not going to do it anyhow. I tend to play at large or huge maps and have something like 30+ cities and then this is a little bit too much work for me. No disrespect, to each his own. :thumbsup:

    By the way. I did some practical calculations in another thread on the effect of the binary science rate (not that much micromanagement in that). The effects were somewhat smaller then what I would have expected. The effect is of course 0 before any libraries have been build. Then the effect increases to just under 1% and later in the game it decreased to something like 0.35%. Still, every bonus is useful, but if there are other disadvantages (like the one I mentioned at the start of this thread), then you shouldn't use it mindlessly all the time.
     
  20. Qitai

    Qitai .

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    Don't think this will work. If I remember correctly the contact bonus is part of the "invisible bonus" just like the pre-requisite bonus. In that case, the only way to track it is to note the difference every turn and adjust accordingly. Now, that is something I will not go into.
     

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