Middle Ages Conquest?

[killercane]

I started a chieftain MA scenario game going for an as-fast-as-possible conquest as the germans. I had forgotten how big the map is, and its now 1050 AD, and though Im well on my way with the french, danes, poles, yellow civ w/ rome, and danes destroyed, with magyars reduced to a city, it aint so easy due to the terrain and size of the map. I'll get there, but not soon. Whats the quickest any of you have conquested this one? And with whom?

Im thinking turks and abassids would be better for such a mission with their 3 move units.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

I never heard of any successful Conquest victory here; by the time you have eliminated all Civs, you usually reached the VP limit a long time ago.
But, the only Civs with even a remote chance are the Viking ones. Danes are usually the strongest, but the Rus may seem a good choice as well, since they can build Cataphracts.
I'd still try it with the Danes first; you should be able to eliminate Norway, England, Celts, Sweden, Poland and Germany or France within the first 50 turns. Castille, Cordova, Burgundy should follow soon. And, all Fatimid Kings are in coastal cities, so they can be easily taken out later.
In fact, the only Civs that will resemble some resistance should be the Rus, Abbassids, Constantinople and Abbassids. I still doubt it is doable before your reach the 30k points; even if you only ever capture royal cities, it should be too much.

 

[LLXerxes]

That's not a bad idea Doc. Gotta try that

Try the Byzantines. Expand east through anatolia, try to build a ring of cities around the black sea with heavy fortifications, expand west into Turkey/Anatolia, into the Cacausins, and down into the Middle East. Once all the room in Europe is gone, people will move there. To you're North West you have the Bulgars, which should be easy to conquer. And the magyars. THe Turks and Abbasids are pretty tough to the west but I would suggest attacking the turks quickly.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Nono, you get me wrong.
Byz for sure can beat the crap out of everyone (played them even as Always War). The problem here is to kill everyone beofer hitting the 30k victory points. And if you ever attack an unnecessary city, spare units or wait too long before you attack (in other words, that Civ has time to build units and their cities grow), or research too many techs, it get increasingly difficult.
See, with Byz you cannot reach England before London reaches size 12. In other words, that Civ will give 600+600+1200VPs for conquest, plus all their dead units = ~3000VPs for England alone. And that only if you exclusively attack their royal cities...
There are 17 AIs to kill...

The Vikings can blitz several Civs before turn 20; at that time, those Civs will have built a couple of Spears, and their city may be size +1. You should get less than 500 for Celts and Norway, and less than 1000 for England and Sweden.

Also, with Berserks you can make surgical assaults, only attacking the coastal royal cities where possible. If you want to eliminate the Fatimids with another Civ, you have to either pass through their territory (if we don't want ROP rapes), or land first - but that'll mean they can attack your units first.

 

[killercane]

Doc,

I had considered the Danes for just such reasons, but getting them from their start all the way to the other side of the map seemed tough, especially with a limited number of berserks at the beginning and no 2 move unit. Rus might be possible, but im beginning to think the idea is IMpossible the further I go. It had been a while since Id tried this scenario, and its been fun.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Longships move 8 tiles...that's a lot faster than any mounted unit. A LOT.

 

[LLXerxes]

Nono, you get me wrong.
Byz for sure can beat the crap out of everyone (played them even as Always War). The problem here is to kill everyone beofer hitting the 30k victory points. And if you ever attack an unnecessary city, spare units or wait too long before you attack (in other words, that Civ has time to build units and their cities grow), or research too many techs, it get increasingly difficult.
See, with Byz you cannot reach England before London reaches size 12. In other words, that Civ will give 600+600+1200VPs for conquest, plus all their dead units = ~3000VPs for England alone. And that only if you exclusively attack their royal cities...
There are 17 AIs to kill...

The Vikings can blitz several Civs before turn 20; at that time, those Civs will have built a couple of Spears, and their city may be size +1. You should get less than 500 for Celts and Norway, and less than 1000 for England and Sweden.

Also, with Berserks you can make surgical assaults, only attacking the coastal royal cities where possible. If you want to eliminate the Fatimids with another Civ, you have to either pass through their territory (if we don't want ROP rapes), or land first - but that'll mean they can attack your units first.

Well... you still win

 

[bkwrm79]

I'm playing the scenario as the Byzantines, Regent level. I'm doing quite well actually - but I have a problem. The Norwegians took New Constantinople, in the Balearic Islands - a one square island! The Byzantines don't ever get amphibious troops, do they?

That leaves either a) sending a fleet to Norway to attack the Norwegians until they're willing to hand the city over to me in negotiations (I already made peace with them due to being attacked by the Turks, they gave me all their 14 gold but not the city) or b) forgetting about it. I'm leaning towards option b. I did reinforce my Mediterranean cities, after retaking Corsica, and left a strong naval force in the Western Med.

I've been planning on war against the Abbasids from the beginning, I've got to drive off the stupid Turkish swordsmen first... I just pillaged an iron source that I'm hoping is their only one, but I think I'm going to have to raze a few cities to make sure the Turks don't bother me for a good while. They're ready to make peace but I feel like war, and I'm not ready to take on the Abbasids yet.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Don't care about the Turkish Iron. But, by all means take care about their Horses! Sipahi are 6.3.3, and require only those hairy beasts...
They have only one source , pretty close to you.

Correct, only the Vikings get amphibious unit. But then, who cares for the Baleares? Leave it to the Scandinavian tourists...

Before you consider a major war against Turks or Abbassids - do you have a unit to detect their Assassins?
Would be ugly without (it usually is preferable to have Assassins yourself, instead of waiting for Spies).

 

[killercane]

If you conquest everyone besides that little island, still post a screenshot here. Thats still an accomplishment. Otherwise, a suggestion would be get some military allies with berserks to go in and take that island.

 

[onedreamer]

I don't know, but personally if I want a conquest victory destroying all civs around I won't play a historical scenario with a totally different goal

 

[LLXerxes]

Kill the bulgars.

 

[killercane]

@ Onedreamer- Im not sure I understand you. Conquest is enabled in this scenario, but like Doc says no ones shown where its been done.

 

[onedreamer]

you can always win by conquest, but when I play a scenario I like to stick to the story and achieve the scenario's main goal. For example if I play France I will try to bring the relic to Jerusalem rather than conquer the whole world.

 

[killercane]

You CANNOT always win this scenario via conquest, your victory points give you a win before that. If you do win via conquest feel free to post your screen here. I started a game as the danes but, forgetting which cities held the kings, I was getting too many VPs.

I agree with you though that returning the relics and becoming Holy Roman Emperor is enjoyable.

Hopefully Doc will take up the challenge to see if a conquest can be done. ive put this game on the back burner for now.

 

[bkwrm79]

I greatly appreciate the advice.

I decided to enhance my infrastructure, before embarking on a major war. I went on a last strike against the Turks just as they began to send Sipahi against me, razed two more cities (total of five), then made peace. I exacted reparations of 97 gold plus 17 gpt.

My objectives now are to acquire assassins (as suggested by Doc), enhance my road system - I captured a *lot* of Turkish workers, less from razing cities than from capturing the settlers sent to rebuild them - and generally increase my military strength. I have a lot of Manors and Monasteries, as well as a Domeday Book and Notre Dame, so my domestic infrastructure is pretty much complete, except that I need more Harbors.

No peace period though - now Sweden has attacked, launching an unsuccessful attack on Sicily. They killed a Cataphract before I sunk their ship. I'm enhancing the fleet I have in the Western Med, and one of the Dromons on its way there is also carrying three more Spearmen. The problem is that, due to the speed of the longships, I need to be able to absorb their first attack before my Dromons get a chance to sink them.

I agree with onedreamer about seeking historically plausible goals. Therefore my ultimate objective is to reclaim as much of the Roman empire as possible. First I want to defeat the Abbasids in Syria, reclaim Jerusalem etc. Ultimately - once the Muslim powers are weakened and my Eastern front is secure - I need to wage war on Burgundy. Rome must be mine!