MilesBeyond's Big List of Balance Tweaks

[MilesBeyond]

"I'm not nerfing anything, my goal here instead is to take stuff that no one ever builds and make it worth building"

Can I assume then you intend the GW change as a buff? I already consider GW in the top 4 wonder tier (along with mids and TGL^2). However, adding defense to cities would make it more logical (given that it's a wall) rather than + GG emergence. The main obstacle to building GW is that it goes super early, not that it sucks. It just requires stone in BFC or be nearby for a good 2nd city to settle on stone.

GW change was intended as a bit of a buff, yes. GW really isn't a terribly useful wonder because you can fogbust to avoid barbarians and you shouldn't be fighting enough battles in your territory to have the GG bonus make a big difference.

The idea with the +25 def is to make it a nicer buff for REXers. This way, your cities are not only immune to barbarian incursion (which, as I said, isn't really a huge issue, but it lets you avoid spending hammers on fogbusting) but are also less attractive for other players.


Statue of Zeus I thought about changing, but the problem is with the game mechanics, rather than the wonder. +100% War Weariness would be massive if the AI felt the full brunt of it, and so to strengthen the wonder might make it a bit too much in MP (...maybe?). But I do like your suggestion of having it decrease your own WW. That might make for a more useful wonder.

 

[TheWilltoAct]

GW change was intended as a bit of a buff, yes. GW really isn't a terribly useful wonder because you can fogbust to avoid barbarians and you shouldn't be fighting enough battles in your territory to have the GG bonus make a big difference.

The idea with the +25 def is to make it a nicer buff for REXers. This way, your cities--

What difference does it make; it's worse typically to have enemies at your gate than in yonder culturally plucked swamp. The GW is stronger than you give it credit for, or at least I would like to see a more compelling argument for why it should be boosted.

 

[traius]

GW change was intended as a bit of a buff, yes. GW really isn't a terribly useful wonder because you can fogbust to avoid barbarians and you shouldn't be fighting enough battles in your territory to have the GG bonus make a big difference.

The idea with the +25 def is to make it a nicer buff for REXers. This way, your cities are not only immune to barbarian incursion (which, as I said, isn't really a huge issue, but it lets you avoid spending hammers on fogbusting) but are also less attractive for other players.


Statue of Zeus I thought about changing, but the problem is with the game mechanics, rather than the wonder. +100% War Weariness would be massive if the AI felt the full brunt of it, and so to strengthen the wonder might make it a bit too much in MP (...maybe?). But I do like your suggestion of having it decrease your own WW. That might make for a more useful wonder.

That's only the beginning of the problems with WW. You also only really accrue it as the aggressor, which means SoZ is purely defensive. WW generation is very dependent on cultural "dominance". You get some for losing cities, and some for being nuked, but that's all the defender would ever have doubled if the aggressor had SoZ. You don't get WW for defending within your own "borders" with regular units. To make it even more annoying,it's about cultural dominance and not cultural borders, so even squares that aren't in anyone's borders because of cities being taken over can be WW immune to the defender.
Read more here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=181512

WW would have to penalize on the defender and penalize on the AI much more for a player to ever consider making it for reasons other than culture.

 

[SyntaxError]

What does Karadoc have to say?

It is safe to say that his actions will speak much louder than words!

 

[drewisfat]

GW's main purpose is for the early and utterly broken GSpy which pumps out a bunch of free techs. The fact that it also prevents barbs means there's no Opportunity Cost. You build the great wall instead of spawn busters. Also you eliminate any possibility of horrid barb luck, which I will admit still costs me games early on sometimes when I stretch myself thin. The GG emergence and +2 culture are then minor, but already over the top bonuses.

Cruddy wonders can still be good for cultural victories and fail gold. Stonehenge is good for neither on deity.

It goes super early and it's pretty much impossible (as well as unwise) to secure getting both SH and GW. And GW is a much better wonder, not worth risking for free monument crapola.