Military Tactics- All History

[amirsan]

Ok, I will try this again, though this time it will be better, tactics. I will start one off with what I have found out somewhere (not telling where).


This was the strategy the barbarians used against the Romans during the Roman Empire and the beggining of its downfall.

The battle began with the barbs moveing in the fortified Legion line formation. The barbarians drove in the center of the line spitting the Roman Army in half (as you may know this tactic). Both sides were seperated and the barbarian army is seperated on each side. Suddenly one side of the barbarian army moves away quickly. The half roman army is there with no attacks on them when suddenly the barbarian archers fling away at the weak troops.

This is what they used to supposedly win the battle. My variation that I think will work is this;

(1) Red is the Barbarians and black is the Romans. The split the army (the red circle is the archers). (2) Army is split, both sides are attacking each other. (3) The barbarian right side does not flee away but moves to the other side instead and reinforce the right side against the weak left roman side leaving the roman right side alone. (4) The archers kill off the right side as the 2:1 barbarians kill the outnumbered roman's left side.

This is what I meant on the other thread, post more of you own or others you want to quote on.

 

[Kryten]

Hmmm....your tactic looks very 'Napoleonic'.

I'm afraid that in reality things just didn't happen that way.
First, the 'barbarians' (Germaninc tribes?) didn't have the discipline, officers, training, or command and control to carry out such tactics.
Second, you are forgetting the main strength of the Roman style of war: reserves.

The Romans almost always deployed the 10 cohorts of each Legion into three lines, so that if the first were broken through or split, then there were always reserve cohorts to fill the gaps and maintain an unbroken front. This is in stark contrast to how the Celts of Gaul, the early Germanic tribes, and even the Hellenistic armies of Greece and Macedon fought. They would just line up all their troops into one long deep formation, with NO reserves. This made them easier to train and control, but gave them far less tactical flexibility than the Romans had....which is why the Romans were so damned good!

(I think I'll try my hand at writing a HUGE article about "Warfare in the Ancient World", which will contain just about everything that I have read and learned during two decades of playing table-top miniture battles. )

 

[amirsan]

Not from what I saw in "Combat" in the history channel...

 

[Xen]

this is what a REAL ROman battle system, and tactics worked like

 

[Xen]

the standard barbarian tactic was to rush the center, and attempt to take out the command structure- Roman tactics hinged on holding the center, with LOTS of researves ot take the place of the exauseted legioaries mid point through the battle, while support troop came in from the sides, ala Alexandrian tactics that won him Persia, and thus crush the enemy in a pincer action

 

[Kshatriya]

Wow, that diagram looks just like the battle they showed in the trailer for Rome: Total War

 

[Xen]

whats that? any way it dosent matter, whatever it is, the peopple behind it did the're homework

 

[Inhalaattori]

I believe celts for example changed their tactics after some huge defeats.

German tribes for example didnt always fight with that "rushing style", they used guerilla tactics also. In the dark forests of Teutoburg the evil romans were defeated by heroic Arminius and his brave warriors.

Xen, did you know that romans who were captured were impaled with spears. Germans thought that when torturing their enemies with this style they pleased their gods. :devil2:

 

[Xen]

there were no captives- the barbians slauterd almost everyone- some escaped, which is how we know about it - as far as I know, ehn the romans returned to the area, the buried every sigle body who wasnt one of the surviviors- to a man, as for thire gods, well they arnt Barbarians for nothing are they

 

[Xen]

but the chart dose show the basics of an open battle, guriila tactics arnt a battle are they?

 

[Inhalaattori]

Germans had also temples beneath the ground, where they sacrificed people to their gods. Impaling was also used.
Germans and Vikings also hanged people and animals to trees. With these rituals they honored their supreme god Wotan or Odin (Vikings used this name, but the god is same). According to legends Wotan hanged himself to tree, in order to gain wisdom. He also plucked his another eye for same reason.

But this word "barbarian" you are using, its just Roman propaganda. Barbarian way of life was, at least I think so, much more worthy. They were one with the nature. They were people of the forest. They respected Mother Earth unlike evil Romans.

Roma - Amor. It was often thought that Roma, in fact, represented all unmoral things in life. Even many Roman histocians thought this way, Tacitus for example. So Roma was against Amor. (Amor does not mean romantical love, it is much wider term, it means goodness and high morals)

I take Celts for an example. Celts trusted to their gods so much that they fighted completly naked! (They thought that if they would wear armor, it would mean that they dont trust to their gods).

Celts also thought that it was contemptible that 2 men would fight agains 1 men. So, in battles Romans exploited this. So the Celts vanished partly becouse they were not as greedy and unmoral as Romans were. They died becouse they were "the pure ones".

 

[Xen]

-only fanatical celts fought naked- most wore chainmail if they could afford it

-perhaps you do think it was more noble- but then you dont see them being the basis for world culture do you? as for immorality? you have no idea what the basics of the religio Romana are other then poytheism- until you learn some fact s on Rome, I invite you to take your anti western, anti ROman, and anti-me propaganda else where

its also VERY intersting that you mention the fact of the whole element of human sacrifice in germanic rituals, and then have the gaul to say they are not barbaric... the closet Rome comes is Gladiatorial events- little differn from modern sports in the amount of deaths per year- Gladiators were valuble, far to expensive to let them die all the time- most were able to live out long lives.

I have no idea why you so dislike Rome, and its virtues- virtues that so clearlly ignore just to push your own anti-Roman sentiment on the people, but then i dont expect someone contemptine greco-roman culture would be all that open to things like free speech, and opinon, considerng the closest other bations got were oligachies, and few of them even got to that stage.

why did the celts get wiped out? Because they stagnated, they stagnated, and then had the audacity to wage conflict against rome- to the point where when Roman attention could turn to area, it was all to needed to show Roman vengence- and the germans who started the trouble in the first place shouldnt get off blame free either

our world is based off of Rome, you cannot erace it, or me, you cannot defame it, nor me, you cannot slander it, nor me, nor anyone who stands for its virtues- I do not know why you have this strange vendetta against me, Inhalaattori, but as a Roman, i will protec t the honour of my ancestors,my familly, and my nation(s) so, please, before you make your ill founded anti westerness even more appernet, at least catch up on the facts- all you succed in doing is weakening your own case (though in my veiw you dont have one, and most of your claims are absurd)


*sorry for the personal bashing, but it needed to be done- I'm tired of your harassment Inhalaattori- and its time somthing was done about it.

 

[pawpaw]

my understanding is barbarian is not a roman word but greek, so its not roman proganda.

p.s. it you refuse to use advantages and die for it-you had it coming

 

[Inhalaattori]

Im not trying to irritate you or anything like that, maybe you just misunderstand me. I just thing that you are quite one- eyed dude. In some strange way I still think you are a funny guy, in the same way as Curt.

Most people see, or they have been brainwashed to think that civilization is only a good thing. I personally dont think so. Moderator Action: That probably renders you unfit to be a member at a CIVILIZATION site. Anyway, relegion bashing and trolling, stalking another poster, 14 days, or perhaps perma-ban
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
More science and technology just alinates us more from nature. The reason why I dislike Rome is that they spread urbanization and later of course they also spread christianity, the artifact of Evil. This Babylon Whore (= Roman Church, I think mormons still use this funny saying) teached people that man is something better than other "fauna". That is just pervent way of thinking. I prefer more natural way of living. Most people nowdays think that they are not part of nature. I believe germans and their human- sacrifices represented some kind of better balance between man and nature.

After all, we are doomed as a species,becouse we cant any more change our ways.

"We, who not deny the animal of our nature
We, who yearn to preserve our liberation
We, who face darkness in our hearts with a solemn fire
We, who aspire to the truth and pursue it’s strength

Bygone are tolerance and presence of grace
Scavengers are set out to cleanse the human filth parade"

 

[Xen]

I'm a polytheistic roman- to me the "Roman" empire ceased to be Roman in culture the day Constantine became emperor.

and to me, we are hardley doomed- it is our innovation, imagination, and scientific thought that will save us, and aid us in our future- it is this thought which has connected more people to nature then the celts, or any other people ever were...


but lets get this thread back on track- if you want to discuss this, then start a thread, but lets stop hijacking this one...

 

[SeleucusNicator]

Originally posted by Xen
and then have the gaul to say they are not barbaric...

 

[Caesar Sam]

Originally posted by pawpaw
my understanding is barbarian is not a roman word but greek

It comes from the Latin "barbarus" meaning foreigner. A barbarian in the Roman empire was anyone not a Roman.

P.S. Can we get back to some discussion on tactics?

 

[amirsan]

Yeah! More Tactics!

 

[KillerSheep]

Here is a little on medieval tactics.

 

[KillerSheep]

Oops double post....