Missing elements of cIV
- Thread starter Englor
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5cats
Warlord
Absent_Traveler said:
While "oil" can refer to 'fish oil', 'vegetable oil' or even 'whale oil', in THIS GAME it refers to petroleum oil. Period!
Chicken as a special resource? Omg! You can raise chickens anywhere! Even cows and horses were more area-oriented until very modern times. But chickens? Oy! If something is ubiquitous it is far from a "special" resource.
And, FYI smarty-pants, there is no such thing as 'natural' plutonium. It is man-made from (drumroll please) Uranium!
Two things in favour of Absent Traveller:
#1 things like "stone" and "fish" are also found everywhere (and pigs and sheep for that matter) yet represented by "special" resources. IMO this is done for game balance and little else. Just re-name Pig to Chicken if you like.
#2 A-T isn't as bad as some flammers I've seen
At least he defends his ideas and mostly stays on topic.Also: Don't criticize people's spelling or syntax or grammer on this forum! It isn't nice, people make mstakes, eh?
MoonBase
Warlord
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While I found the initial ideas presented here to be interesting, if on occassion redundant(as there have been several mods adding all sorts of resources already, and tutorials for how it can be done), I find the method of presentation, and more accurately the attitude displayed in the "defense" of said presentation, to be extremely off-putting.
There seems to be little point in taking any of these proposals seriously, as their author seems incapable, or simply unwilling, to treat those of differing opinions as actual human beings.
I think I'll stick to the numerous mods others have already put effort into producing, and whose authors are able to present their ideas and discuss alternate viewpoints without being rude to the point of distraction.
And I still don't get the homosexual comment...
There seems to be little point in taking any of these proposals seriously, as their author seems incapable, or simply unwilling, to treat those of differing opinions as actual human beings.
I think I'll stick to the numerous mods others have already put effort into producing, and whose authors are able to present their ideas and discuss alternate viewpoints without being rude to the point of distraction.
And I still don't get the homosexual comment...
5cats said:
Sorry about this, and I never do, but I found the slamming done by this threads host to be unecessary. Calling another poster a dimwit, confused, and the many other things he said were unecessary, and his refusal to accept other people's opinions. I myself have typos all the time. I'm just asking for the host to not be so rough.
And no, I still don't get the homosexual joke either.
Hmmmm. 2.
chicken
A term used to describe a young (generally gay) male; often used with connotations of twink.
(See also: chicken hawk)
Did you see the chicken Ryan brought to the party? That boy was like, seventeen!
from "http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=chicken" perhaps that was what the gay reference was about.
chicken
A term used to describe a young (generally gay) male; often used with connotations of twink.
(See also: chicken hawk)
Did you see the chicken Ryan brought to the party? That boy was like, seventeen!
from "http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=chicken" perhaps that was what the gay reference was about.
Hi everyone!
I hope you all don't mind if I come to Absent's defense?
I think some of his ideas are pretty neat. I don't happen to agree with them, but I do think they have merit in possibly some mods, as some have said.
Some of the resource ideas are redundant -- but I think what he was saying was that we can use more resources, have a more diverse economy, and a lot of the resources act as a 'bonus' resource. They are for the city within the border, and can be used if the appropriate building is built. We know some of the mods like TAM for CIV III -- a TRULY great mod -- had a lot of resources.
Also, he wants more trade and a disticntion between early and later economies.
To me, this is a bit complex. I would think it might go well in a marathon type game where there is more time for development.
I want everyone to know I'm not discounting anyone's opinions.
Absent, I apologize if I mes-represented your argument.
Best wishes,
Breunor
I hope you all don't mind if I come to Absent's defense?
I think some of his ideas are pretty neat. I don't happen to agree with them, but I do think they have merit in possibly some mods, as some have said.
Some of the resource ideas are redundant -- but I think what he was saying was that we can use more resources, have a more diverse economy, and a lot of the resources act as a 'bonus' resource. They are for the city within the border, and can be used if the appropriate building is built. We know some of the mods like TAM for CIV III -- a TRULY great mod -- had a lot of resources.
Also, he wants more trade and a disticntion between early and later economies.
To me, this is a bit complex. I would think it might go well in a marathon type game where there is more time for development.
I want everyone to know I'm not discounting anyone's opinions.
Absent, I apologize if I mes-represented your argument.
Best wishes,
Breunor
Absent_Traveler said:
You're clearly mistaken. Just look it up on wiki if you don't believe me.
And on another point.... Plutonium doesn't occour naturally either; At least... not in gatherable quantities. It comes from uranuim enrichment.
There's a fair bit in the soil, spread around the northern hemisphere..... but we put that there... from all the nuclear weapons testing in the 40's-80's.
Yzman
Deity
I just wanna say that I don't agree with his ideas, for the reasons already posted. I mainly posted because I want to say that I think all of his posts are way out of line and should be deleted. They are all flames. If someone can't argue without talking down to others, maybe they shouldn't debate at all.
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Moderator Action: OK - cease the flaming. Discuss the ideas in a civil manner without the ad-hominem attacks and flaming.
Or the thread gets closed and the persons responsible dealt with.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
Or the thread gets closed and the persons responsible dealt with.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
Older than Dirt
King
Petroleum is "rock oil." We just ain't got good words in English sos we borry from Latin "petra" an from Greek "olem". Round about theese parts we ofen jus says "url" for oil. Now "oi el" is what you be putten on yer salad. Do this make it cler?
5cats
Warlord
I understand TomBeef and Mattjek, and I wasn't singling out anyone. Just an overall notice that many folks on this site are not English first language, and some (like me) just can't spell!
It would add a more fluid element to have more resources that cease being useful or pop up later. That would allow more resources to be added and not overwhelm the landscape.
Thanks Lorkfudge, I'd forgotten about the term "chickenhawk", lol!
Older than Dirt, isn't an "oil can" filled with beer 'round about your parts?
It would add a more fluid element to have more resources that cease being useful or pop up later. That would allow more resources to be added and not overwhelm the landscape.
Thanks Lorkfudge, I'd forgotten about the term "chickenhawk", lol!
Older than Dirt, isn't an "oil can" filled with beer 'round about your parts?
MoonBase
Warlord
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Well, in the spirit of having a better introduction (hello everyone, as you can see from my regdate, I've been lurking for a while now), I do have to say that Absent_Traveler does have some good points.
A more robust economic system would be interesting, although personally I got a lot of that out of my system with Colonization. As that was a much smaller-scale game, having a more in-depth economic system was tons of fun. In CIV it might be just another layer of complexity (hard to model, to an extent too, without a much more complicated trade system). Would actually, it seems to me, be worthy of a whole other game... perhaps something along the lines of a combination of CIV, Europa Universalis II, Colonization...some other things too...
Heck, add in some level of city-state to nation development and a resource system that's based on amount rather than simple existence, and you're approaching my favorite game of all time.
Some nit-picks, intended as friendly pointers and not harsh criticisms:
As was mentioned, there is, technically, elephant as you've desired already in the game. What's missing is alternate sources of ivory (walrus tusks? I can't think of a major source off the top of my head other than elephant). Alot of the small-game animals are already abstracted or are in the game, including Beaver specifically, and I myself would love to see more sea-based resources (and have. Check out the mods section. Lots of new resources already there)
I would love to see lumber somehow incorporated as a tradable resource, but in truth, I think it would require the amount set-up I mentioned above. There are forests all over the world, after all, and the only reason France (festooned with forests) bought Baltic lumber is because it was actually easier to get the wood from across a couple of seas than to deal with shippping it up some rivers.
Lead, while somewhat common-place, is also a big thing. Perhaps that should be the resource added for musketmen and riflemen and the like, rather than the sulpher/saltpeter/phospherous combinations the mod makers have been considering.
Separating grapes and wine seems superfluous without the raw-to-finished product system you mention later. After all, one would not find wine growing out of the ground.
And honestly, I've always been a bit perturbed by the staticness of most of the fertile resources in the game. But then, I'm a Californian, and very aware of where our wine and olive oil originated.
And, as with other things, there are a lot of mods down below that have added most of these resources, as well as some others. The European Empires mod is a neat take on the ideas, in particular.
As others have mentioned, you've got it a little backwards there. Petroleum is in the game, called oil. Non-petroleum oils are not in the game, but could be. Olives come to mind especially.
And the Realism Mod is working right now on a Plutonium addition. I even added a set-up in one of my own personal messing-around-attempts. Not naturally occuring, of course, and not precisely all that useful without different Nuke units in the mix as well.
And, as a final nit-pick, it seems a little odd to classify uranium(most usually found in a clay mixture, and processed a metal) and plutonium(also a metal) as "liquid" resources. Unless one is speaking economically, of course, in which case platinum could be used as well.
A more robust economic system would be interesting, although personally I got a lot of that out of my system with Colonization. As that was a much smaller-scale game, having a more in-depth economic system was tons of fun. In CIV it might be just another layer of complexity (hard to model, to an extent too, without a much more complicated trade system). Would actually, it seems to me, be worthy of a whole other game... perhaps something along the lines of a combination of CIV, Europa Universalis II, Colonization...some other things too...
Heck, add in some level of city-state to nation development and a resource system that's based on amount rather than simple existence, and you're approaching my favorite game of all time.
Some nit-picks, intended as friendly pointers and not harsh criticisms:
As was mentioned, there is, technically, elephant as you've desired already in the game. What's missing is alternate sources of ivory (walrus tusks? I can't think of a major source off the top of my head other than elephant). Alot of the small-game animals are already abstracted or are in the game, including Beaver specifically, and I myself would love to see more sea-based resources (and have. Check out the mods section. Lots of new resources already there)
I would love to see lumber somehow incorporated as a tradable resource, but in truth, I think it would require the amount set-up I mentioned above. There are forests all over the world, after all, and the only reason France (festooned with forests) bought Baltic lumber is because it was actually easier to get the wood from across a couple of seas than to deal with shippping it up some rivers.
Lead, while somewhat common-place, is also a big thing. Perhaps that should be the resource added for musketmen and riflemen and the like, rather than the sulpher/saltpeter/phospherous combinations the mod makers have been considering.
Separating grapes and wine seems superfluous without the raw-to-finished product system you mention later. After all, one would not find wine growing out of the ground.
And honestly, I've always been a bit perturbed by the staticness of most of the fertile resources in the game. But then, I'm a Californian, and very aware of where our wine and olive oil originated.
And, as with other things, there are a lot of mods down below that have added most of these resources, as well as some others. The European Empires mod is a neat take on the ideas, in particular.
As others have mentioned, you've got it a little backwards there. Petroleum is in the game, called oil. Non-petroleum oils are not in the game, but could be. Olives come to mind especially.
And the Realism Mod is working right now on a Plutonium addition. I even added a set-up in one of my own personal messing-around-attempts. Not naturally occuring, of course, and not precisely all that useful without different Nuke units in the mix as well.
And, as a final nit-pick, it seems a little odd to classify uranium(most usually found in a clay mixture, and processed a metal) and plutonium(also a metal) as "liquid" resources. Unless one is speaking economically, of course, in which case platinum could be used as well.
ChicagoCubs
Prince
- Joined
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Absent_Traveler said:
You have left out many...
Buffalo, minx, lobsters, oysters, tigers, bears, octupii, tuna, cod, turtles, llamas, haliput, tilapia, antelopes, moose, geese, ducks, eels, alligators, crocodiles, snakes
Diamonds, platinum, emeralds, rubies, sapphires, limestone, small aggregate, hard wood, soft wood, bamboo, granite
Oranges, avacodos, apples, hops, celery, broccoli, cauliflower, limes, lemons, plums, carrots, lettuce, salt, saltpeter, charcoal
Natural gas
I am sure that I am missing a few. I guess every single tile would need a resource on it.
I want to thank everyone who got this thread bck on good terms again.
I understand the part about not having English as a first language, but, if you read my earlier posts, you'll find the reason that I took the position I did. I thought the treatment of other posters was wrong. I have to thank the moderators for stepping in.
While the ideas posted in this forum may be interesting, especially plagues and such, I feel that all the new information would terribly bog down the game and greatly increase the micromanagement.
There are plenty of mods out there that add resources and random events if you want to give it a try. Oh, and thank you Bruenor for stating your opinions subjectively and with desency. I dont think anyone minds a little friendly joking or jawing, but some of the stuff in this thread had gone too far.
Cheers.
I understand the part about not having English as a first language, but, if you read my earlier posts, you'll find the reason that I took the position I did. I thought the treatment of other posters was wrong. I have to thank the moderators for stepping in.
While the ideas posted in this forum may be interesting, especially plagues and such, I feel that all the new information would terribly bog down the game and greatly increase the micromanagement.
There are plenty of mods out there that add resources and random events if you want to give it a try. Oh, and thank you Bruenor for stating your opinions subjectively and with desency. I dont think anyone minds a little friendly joking or jawing, but some of the stuff in this thread had gone too far.
Cheers.
Englor
General
Breunor said:
Breunor,
I do not mind at all your open un-prejudice script.
It appears to me that ppeople like to talk tough to new commers, and yet when the newby if you will, proves to stand up for him/her self, these people are turned off by the fact.
Why have I expressed myself in a "rash", or "unecessary" mannor, because I find it very heavily weighing how people all around me rise to seem so enlightened, and yet when someone can take any argument of someone and completely turn that argument towards a different alignment in conjunction with other principle based constructive ideas, everyone starts crying and whining on themselves. All these arguments against my ideas, I can, absolutely argue down to the bead of their emergence, where I HAVE thought them through from the start. I have been following this game since its' own existence, and have a very good idea of it's over all influence. Many of the ideas that are now in the game, are exact principles i've always wanted implemented. Ofcourse there are always more, though I want this game to finally rech the point, where more is no longer needed. Now if everyone could just propose their opposing veiwpoints of my ideas, in the form of question structured inquiry, I'd be happy and more than ready, to answer/argue constructively, provided everyone else, can keep the unessesary sarcasm to a minimmum.
Thank you and sorry for the assertion of flamming.
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