Aggie
Deity
I will be able to play after akots (I'm up then am I?). But I weill not be able to post a 'got it' in time.
MM1: Defiant Sid.
- Thread starter Mark1031
- Start date
akots
Poet
[3] 520AD. Continued from previous log. Our army is in Japanese territory 2 tiles away from Osaka. Double-checked all cities and press Enter. IBT. Toku demands we withdraw. We humbly retreat. Can trade Monotheism for 70g+99gpt from Toku. Thats too much but may be worth it because he can declare again any time soon. Mongol frigates appear. Egypt lands a crusader near Trondheim.
[4] 530AD. Crusader killed with army. No peace deals on the market. Army tries to march through Tokyo. IBT. Mongols bombard Oslo and injure a galley which heals.
[5] 540AD. Japanese army fears our berserk. IBT. Army booted again from the suburbs of Osaka. America moves two stacks of ships each containing 3 frigates and galleon. Where they are going to unload?
[6] 550AD. Another archer upgraded. IBT. Crap and crap of craps: America unloaded 3 cavalries and MDI on the small island near Molde.
[7] 560AD. 3 zerks transported to the island. First kills cavalry and we have Golden Age. Second redlines cavalry and dies, third kills cavalry and promotes. MDI and redlined cavalry are finished with elite swords. We making 203 gpt and can fire all clowns (we had 2). Still no peace deals available. IBT. Army has been booted again. American armada sails around. Our elite heroic galley redlines but sinks Mongol frigate. Persians request audience. They will accept peace for Literature. No way.
[8] 570AD. Most income spent on troop upgrades. Trondheim wastes horrendous amount of food. The starting build has been very spacious. IBT. Army booted again. America lands 2 musketmen, 3 MDI and 2 cavalries near Bergen. That is slightly unexpected location.
[9] 580AD. Fortunately, arty was moved slightly on a previous turn and can hit muskets this turn on their beach head. It is all clear without losses. More units upgraded including swords to MDI. Japan has Gunpowder. IBT. American armada retreats. Japan and Mongol signed Embargo against us. Hence, they have Nationalism. Some citizens in Oslo were killed by Mongol frigate bombs.
[10] 590AD. Nothing much, more upgrades. No opportunities for peace and no room for galley to prepare an assault. The seas are virtually full with Mongol and American frigates. Im posting the save just in case. Ill play the next 10 turns either tomorrow or on Saturday. Please post some suggestions on how to proceed.
[4] 530AD. Crusader killed with army. No peace deals on the market. Army tries to march through Tokyo. IBT. Mongols bombard Oslo and injure a galley which heals.
[5] 540AD. Japanese army fears our berserk. IBT. Army booted again from the suburbs of Osaka. America moves two stacks of ships each containing 3 frigates and galleon. Where they are going to unload?
[6] 550AD. Another archer upgraded. IBT. Crap and crap of craps: America unloaded 3 cavalries and MDI on the small island near Molde.
[7] 560AD. 3 zerks transported to the island. First kills cavalry and we have Golden Age. Second redlines cavalry and dies, third kills cavalry and promotes. MDI and redlined cavalry are finished with elite swords. We making 203 gpt and can fire all clowns (we had 2). Still no peace deals available. IBT. Army has been booted again. American armada sails around. Our elite heroic galley redlines but sinks Mongol frigate. Persians request audience. They will accept peace for Literature. No way.
[8] 570AD. Most income spent on troop upgrades. Trondheim wastes horrendous amount of food. The starting build has been very spacious. IBT. Army booted again. America lands 2 musketmen, 3 MDI and 2 cavalries near Bergen. That is slightly unexpected location.
[9] 580AD. Fortunately, arty was moved slightly on a previous turn and can hit muskets this turn on their beach head. It is all clear without losses. More units upgraded including swords to MDI. Japan has Gunpowder. IBT. American armada retreats. Japan and Mongol signed Embargo against us. Hence, they have Nationalism. Some citizens in Oslo were killed by Mongol frigate bombs.
[10] 590AD. Nothing much, more upgrades. No opportunities for peace and no room for galley to prepare an assault. The seas are virtually full with Mongol and American frigates. Im posting the save just in case. Ill play the next 10 turns either tomorrow or on Saturday. Please post some suggestions on how to proceed.
I would continue as planned our kill ratio is excellent. Maybe we should just focus on building up to take out Japan. This will require peace with Egypt so hopefully we can get that before the deal with Japan runs out. If it is safe to move ships toward the Arab/Persian Island then I'd still go for that. We will need some settlers so start building them up as well so we don't waste our food.
akots
Poet
No, it is not safe to move the ships. There is horrendous number of American and Mongol frigates in the area. Also, upgrades are expensive and I have only started spending all Golden Age moneys on them. Don't know if this is the right thing to do or better is to accumulate cash for tech stealing.
I would not dare to move the ships even with a transport if we had the transports. The only way is a 4-tile hopping from city to city but these jump cities we don't have. Also, most of Japanese cities are not coastal. Egypt has a couple though. I don't see how a major breakthrough might be possible without building more cities.
I would not dare to move the ships even with a transport if we had the transports. The only way is a 4-tile hopping from city to city but these jump cities we don't have. Also, most of Japanese cities are not coastal. Egypt has a couple though. I don't see how a major breakthrough might be possible without building more cities.
lurker's comment:
I would just move all your ships to to Trondheim. They seem useless anywhere else. You may lose one or two but the rest should make it. A lot of the enemy ships are acting as escorts and so won't attack you. That group of 4 should all make it for example. The others can try taking the "back route" where ships are not.
Once you have the ships in Trondheim you can then land troops without ever risking a boat. In fact you can land 2 boat loads per turn when you are ready to do whatever attack you plan. If you have 5 boats that is 20 troops per turn for an assault on Japan.
[Edit: As an aside, I do not think it is a good idea to play 20 turns in a very difficult SG. Every player has different strengths and weaknesses - the player coming after will generally appy his strengths and the result is better game play than anyone of the players can do SP (This assumes aproximate equal skill). It is true other players can comment, but you don't really start looking into a game deeply unless you play.]
[Lurk]
I would just move all your ships to to Trondheim. They seem useless anywhere else. You may lose one or two but the rest should make it. A lot of the enemy ships are acting as escorts and so won't attack you. That group of 4 should all make it for example. The others can try taking the "back route" where ships are not.
Once you have the ships in Trondheim you can then land troops without ever risking a boat. In fact you can land 2 boat loads per turn when you are ready to do whatever attack you plan. If you have 5 boats that is 20 troops per turn for an assault on Japan.
[Edit: As an aside, I do not think it is a good idea to play 20 turns in a very difficult SG. Every player has different strengths and weaknesses - the player coming after will generally appy his strengths and the result is better game play than anyone of the players can do SP (This assumes aproximate equal skill). It is true other players can comment, but you don't really start looking into a game deeply unless you play.]
[Lurk]
akots
Poet
@Greebley. The problem is not just to win but win well. That is what I want from this game. It was screwed indeed a couple of times already missing excellent opportunities which were very do-able. And IMHO, it is not very difficult if played properly. The easiest strategy would be to build a series of cities at distance 4 sea tiles from each other and another city 3 tiles from the enemy city we are going to attack. This woul guarantee safe arrival of units (zerks in our case) to their destination. It is certainly possible to do like you suggest but it just looks ... creepy and crappy. And since we would prefer not to land the troops ship safety is extremely important now because zerks are too vulnerable to be put ashore. I'm just remembering SGOTM14... It was possible for your team to win but I would not call it a well-played great game. Instead of trying to solve a problem it is usually better to avoid it. In this case, since we are trying to play on Sid, I would expect somewhat higher game quality from an experienced team. Which we are unable to show including myself. 
However, I do agree that playing 20 turns was not a good idea. Hence, if Aggie or Anarres can play, that might be better. I'll wait another 24 hours before playing.
However, I do agree that playing 20 turns was not a good idea. Hence, if Aggie or Anarres can play, that might be better. I'll wait another 24 hours before playing.
Aggie
Deity
I can take it for tomorrow.
akots
Poet
We still have a deal with Japan.
Aggie
Deity
It appears that the discussion is dead. Or at least rather poor. We don't seem to listen to each other and a number of players doesn't get involved in the game anymore. Why is this?
EDIT: I think that I can only play my ten turns with a general game plan that we all agree upon.
EDIT: I think that I can only play my ten turns with a general game plan that we all agree upon.
anarres
anarchist revolutionary
I've been very busy recently, with only a few mins of PC time a day. I don't think we're doing too badly. We certainly disagree a lot about what to do, but that's part of the game isn't it?
akots
Poet
IMHO, we have to wage a war against Japan and expand into their lands. For now Golden Age can be used just to accumulate enough zerks from archers and ships to transport these zerks. We also need to make some peace treaties somehow.
I'm generally used to games which end before 1000AD but on Sid it takes a longer time and I never played neither AWS or Sid on a standard size map. So, I cannot tell how it would turn out. Well, live and learn in the process. We are taking it the hard way in this game because there was no game plan before we started.
Edited: In all Sid SP games I've played so far, building TGL, giving it away, and then getting it back was always the only apparent way to hold on. This gets cash for upgrades. Then it all comes to massive slaughter/pillage with cavalry armies. Also, watching for the culture was a must to do hammering on the ones with the largest cultural lead. But my experience is really very limited.
I'm generally used to games which end before 1000AD but on Sid it takes a longer time and I never played neither AWS or Sid on a standard size map. So, I cannot tell how it would turn out. Well, live and learn in the process. We are taking it the hard way in this game because there was no game plan before we started.
Edited: In all Sid SP games I've played so far, building TGL, giving it away, and then getting it back was always the only apparent way to hold on. This gets cash for upgrades. Then it all comes to massive slaughter/pillage with cavalry armies. Also, watching for the culture was a must to do hammering on the ones with the largest cultural lead. But my experience is really very limited.
Aggie
Deity
Waging war vs the Japanese. I agree with that. We can expand on that island and with decent to great cities. But unfortunately we are at peace with them. I will try something as soon as possible though. I will make peace with other tribes whenever I can, but I just checked that we have to pay for it, so not possible.
I don't like the TGL trick. In fact I don't like the TGL capture tactic as a whole. It's unimaginative and done too much. Luckily I have seen and played Sid game where this wasn't needed. That said, if the team wants to go that way I will follow.
anarres says that disagreeing is part of the SG experience (if I understand him correctly). I disagree
I much prefer a good (at times heated) debate, weighing the pros and cons and then taking a decision as a team. But even after my specific request we are not doing that. It's a pity. I like this concept and although we are doing reasonably well we will now probably face the challenge of not getting too far behind. We slipped an age behind in 40 turns already though.
I don't like the TGL trick. In fact I don't like the TGL capture tactic as a whole. It's unimaginative and done too much. Luckily I have seen and played Sid game where this wasn't needed. That said, if the team wants to go that way I will follow.
anarres says that disagreeing is part of the SG experience (if I understand him correctly). I disagree
I much prefer a good (at times heated) debate, weighing the pros and cons and then taking a decision as a team. But even after my specific request we are not doing that. It's a pity. I like this concept and although we are doing reasonably well we will now probably face the challenge of not getting too far behind. We slipped an age behind in 40 turns already though.
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
Capturing the Glib once = Strategy (and the AI can absolutely do this as well)
Building the Glib and using the 'Elevator' = Exploit (nothing the AI was programmed to ever do)
I know this is common tactic for HoF games. But SGs are valuing 'honorable' gameplay way higher.
My 0.02 €
Building the Glib and using the 'Elevator' = Exploit (nothing the AI was programmed to ever do)
I know this is common tactic for HoF games. But SGs are valuing 'honorable' gameplay way higher.
My 0.02 €
Sorry, I've been quite busy lately and my game computer is busted. For all the talk to the contrary I don't think we disagree that much. We all want to expand into Japanese territory and we should therefore prepare to do this by building up troops. We won't even need that many galleys as we can accumulate troops under the army and do this with a few shuttles from Trond. One dispute is a GL capture. If it was costal it would be worth a try IMHO but not where it is. It will be defended by rifles and the civ will have rails. As far as the tech pace goes. I'm not sure what we can do. Keeping the others @ war should help and no one should start to run away with it because they will not expand beyond their initial islands. As far as war with Japan. I would go with a stack of about 20 trebs and 20 Zerks under the army with settlers/pikes more zerks coming in behind. I would get peace with Egypt first and I would try steal from Japan or plant a city on their island or just declare if necessary. This is my opinion on the course we should take and as far as I can see it does not differ that much from others. If we all agree on war with Jap maybe we should discuss strategy. I think with the army in place it should be a typical SOD strategy rather than sea assult with Zerks.
Homey/Annares what is your view?
Homey/Annares what is your view?
Aggie
Deity
Well, I'm still interested in the ideas of anarres and homeyg. But I think we agree upon the tactic to invade Japan, so I played my ten turns. We are ready for an invasion:
IHT: No civ wants to make peace. And the only civ we are at peace with doesn't want to declare
The Mongols and Americans are in the IA. Persia and Arabia are backward. I will prepare a war with Japan and land as many troops as possible on their continent.
IT: American firgates destroy the barracks and temple of Oslo. The Mongols drop a Keshik on our lands. Japan kicks us out. Alesund: temple->courthouse. America finishes Newton.
Turn 1 (600 AD) trebs redline the Keshik and an elite sword kills it. No leader. The first three berzerks are dropped on the Japanese continent. An archer is upgraded to berzerk.
IT: Trondheim: berzerk->berzerk. Oslo: barracks->berzerk. Stockholm: market->berzerk.
Turn 2 (610 AD) trebs redline a few Mongol and American frigates. Three galleys make it to the capital.
IT: A lot of bombing, but it only redlines units or misses the target.
Turn 3 (620 AD) Two archers upgraded. Two American and a Mongol frigate redlined. At least the redlined ships retreat.
IT: Japan and America trade embargo us
America bombards, but doesn't do much damage. They also drop a musket and MDI. 4 cities: berzerk->berzerk.
Turn 4 (630 AD) Trebs and two elite swords easily get rid of the invasiopn force. But no leaders. Two new archers upgraded. One berzerk send to Japan.
IT: American frigates again miss for the most part.
Turn 5 (640 AD) Trebs again bobmard American Frigates and now 4 berzerks land near Japan. America accepts straight peace. They even want to pay 40 gold![[party]](/images/smilies/partytime.gif "Party [party]")
I do this immediately. Mongolia also is willing to accept straight peace [dance] The two biggest tribes really love us 
Compared to the Mongols our army is average in size!! I upgrade another archer.
IT: What a peaceful IT! Except for the impi/MDI pair of the Zulu that lands next to Trondheim, that is.
Turn 6 (650 AD) Two elite swords red-line, but kill the invaders. No leaders. One archer is upgraded and 3 berzerks land near Japan.
Turn 7 (660 AD) Two new upgrades and three berzerks near Japan.
IT: America and Persia embargo us.
Turn 8 (670 AD) 4 trebs and 4 berzerks are dropped on the Japanese island.
IT: The Zulu now invade us with an AC. We finish 3 berzerks.
Turn 9 (680 AD) Trebs redline and an elite sword kills the AC. No leader. The Zulu accept straight peace. I am not afraid of them, so no way. Arabia also is OK with straight peace. But I'm sure they give us war hapiness. So no deal.
Three more berzerks are ready for a battle on the other continent.
Turn 10 (690 AD) 3 berzerks land near Japan. We can now cancel the peace deal and invade them. We have a pike army, 4 trebs and 26 zerks there. We could make some trades, but I decided against it for now. We have to watch out for the income drop when our GA ends.
I don't think we should make peace with the Zulu yet. They give us war hapiness when I'm not mistaken.
IHT: No civ wants to make peace. And the only civ we are at peace with doesn't want to declare
The Mongols and Americans are in the IA. Persia and Arabia are backward. I will prepare a war with Japan and land as many troops as possible on their continent.IT: American firgates destroy the barracks and temple of Oslo. The Mongols drop a Keshik on our lands. Japan kicks us out. Alesund: temple->courthouse. America finishes Newton.
Turn 1 (600 AD) trebs redline the Keshik and an elite sword kills it. No leader. The first three berzerks are dropped on the Japanese continent. An archer is upgraded to berzerk.
IT: Trondheim: berzerk->berzerk. Oslo: barracks->berzerk. Stockholm: market->berzerk.
Turn 2 (610 AD) trebs redline a few Mongol and American frigates. Three galleys make it to the capital.
IT: A lot of bombing, but it only redlines units or misses the target.
Turn 3 (620 AD) Two archers upgraded. Two American and a Mongol frigate redlined. At least the redlined ships retreat.
IT: Japan and America trade embargo us
America bombards, but doesn't do much damage. They also drop a musket and MDI. 4 cities: berzerk->berzerk.Turn 4 (630 AD) Trebs and two elite swords easily get rid of the invasiopn force. But no leaders. Two new archers upgraded. One berzerk send to Japan.
IT: American frigates again miss for the most part.
Turn 5 (640 AD) Trebs again bobmard American Frigates and now 4 berzerks land near Japan. America accepts straight peace. They even want to pay 40 gold
I do this immediately. Mongolia also is willing to accept straight peace [dance] The two biggest tribes really love us Compared to the Mongols our army is average in size!! I upgrade another archer.IT: What a peaceful IT! Except for the impi/MDI pair of the Zulu that lands next to Trondheim, that is.
Turn 6 (650 AD) Two elite swords red-line, but kill the invaders. No leaders. One archer is upgraded and 3 berzerks land near Japan.
Turn 7 (660 AD) Two new upgrades and three berzerks near Japan.
IT: America and Persia embargo us.
Turn 8 (670 AD) 4 trebs and 4 berzerks are dropped on the Japanese island.
IT: The Zulu now invade us with an AC. We finish 3 berzerks.
Turn 9 (680 AD) Trebs redline and an elite sword kills the AC. No leader. The Zulu accept straight peace. I am not afraid of them, so no way. Arabia also is OK with straight peace. But I'm sure they give us war hapiness. So no deal.
Three more berzerks are ready for a battle on the other continent.
Turn 10 (690 AD) 3 berzerks land near Japan. We can now cancel the peace deal and invade them. We have a pike army, 4 trebs and 26 zerks there. We could make some trades, but I decided against it for now. We have to watch out for the income drop when our GA ends.
I don't think we should make peace with the Zulu yet. They give us war hapiness when I'm not mistaken.
Nice war prep Aggie. Are we still weak vs Japan. Since the pressure is off vs the Americans we can probably move more trebs over for the assult on Japan. What do people think for a strategy. Should we build a city on the continent and try to gas the Japs before starting our move on them or should we take out a few cities first. We will be safe under our army but once we build the first city we will be attacked. I think we need peace with Egypt before the 1st city is founded. Also, I would bring a lot more trebs before moving. Zerks are very expensive and don't retreat. I've found them to be kind of disappointing in this respect and while quite powerful we will lose alot against fortified muskets without arty bombardment. To be clear I'd advocate:
Bring over about 10 more trebs. Take out 1 or 2 Jap cities. Make peace with Egypt hopefully by then. Plant a city on the continent. Gas Japs by killing troops that advance on our city and then take Japs down to 1 city while filling in the space.
Mark
Homeyg
Aggie
anarres-----> UP
akots-----> On Deck
open
Bring over about 10 more trebs. Take out 1 or 2 Jap cities. Make peace with Egypt hopefully by then. Plant a city on the continent. Gas Japs by killing troops that advance on our city and then take Japs down to 1 city while filling in the space.
Mark
Homeyg
Aggie
anarres-----> UP
akots-----> On Deck
open
akots
Poet
It looks good, we can try to pillage around Kyoto and may be take Osaka. Kyoto might have too many defenders. Japan mostly has Samurai, so building a city is not a good option IMO. It would be just swarmed the very first turn. But if we pillage their iron first then somehow eliminate wondering units with zerks covered by army so that they are left with only slow-moving attackers (longbows?)... Hope they don't have horses and cannot trade for them. Then, it might be possible to start a city there. There should be better some baiting of course but since we play by RBC rules it is not very much possible.
I don't like the TGL gifting as well. But any other ideas on how to cath up in tech?
I don't like the TGL gifting as well. But any other ideas on how to cath up in tech?
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