MM10: Gandhi’s Mad Science. (0%-Science)

[Sharog]

since cyrus is creative, there is basicly no way for us to take back that marble within a short time except completely whipe out cyrus, and chariot is definately not suitable for such thing to fight against a city defend 1 archer on a 20%+ city. which means we might as well forget it to harrass him to death from the start since he has his UU active already.

what we need is a strong core for future domination, a city of 4 perhaps, i would settle to grab the horse and another west of us to get the gold for necessary happiness to stimulate our growth, then grab bronze or iron somewhere so we can start pumping troops.
and im tight up with some other games till tomorrow so enough time to discuss away.

 

[Shadzy19]

Ouch took a look at the save and it doesnt look pretty , all our food resources are stuck in jungles so all we got left are a clams that has to be scouted around and a plains cow .

I would also try to take out cyrus asap , if we let him build we gonna get pushed like crazy , saladin will also start expanding towards us very soon.
If we go for a quick early war with cyrus we gonna have to do it sooner then later , just parking and pillaging him would be best imo untill we gets cats , i hate attacking a cultural civ early on .
We can take out his other city's with swords / axes if we got iron/bronze but a capitol that gets +60% culture rather fast isnt easy.

A bad part about declaring on cyrus is mansu musa is already pleased with him so we get a -1 with him. Lucky for us mansu isnt hard to get trade deals with even if the relations arent to good.

I guess we just have to see first what minerals we got and scout a bit more.

@t Sharog : How do you know he has his UU running already?
I cant see a immortal or horses near his capitol on the save , or did i miss something?

 

[Mark1031]

Well my view is immediate war. The horses will be brought to the capitol by the river and if we chop/mine a forest or 2 we can have 5 vet chariots in like 15-20 turns. This is enough to take the nearest city if it is only defended by 2 archers which it should be. We can then pillage him to keep him down while we expand and build. If we don't hit him early then he will hit us when we aren't expecting it. So we need military anyway. I say make it now and use it. PS I don't fear Immortal, it is no better than chariot except against archer.

I guess I have had bad experiences with Cyrus. I have had him attact very early.

 

[Shadzy19]

You arent talking about the capital are you?
This wouldnt really be smart if he builds his second city east , where it will be little use for us (if he hasnt already)?

Little question im unsure off , when exactly do you auto-raze a city ?
I think its when a city still has 1 pop , but im not sure about this.
What about when it has a cultural expansion and size 1 , can we still keep it then?
If this is the case there is no way we can keep a city before it gets its cultural expansion.

I never had much problems with immortals neither , do they get defensive bonuses? Been a while since i played a game as Cyrus.

 

[katank]

Immortals get defense bonuses, have +50% against archers, and have 30% withdrawal chance.

For some bloody reason, Cyrus often hits me with combat 3 immortals and those hurt big time. Even if I win, they often withdraw!

Using chariots to attack their capital is usually not a very good idea. Spend the shields on city raider axes.

 

[bihary]

I am terribly sorry guys, RL hit me hard all of a sudden. I have to give up my place in this SG. I have another one (Saladin the Pirate) that I started, I will have time only for that one. On the bright side, you do seem to have a healthy group of 5 players even without me, so have fun, I will surely be lurking and one day will try this interesting variant.

Best.

 

[Shadzy19]

Sorry to hear that bihary

 

[Sharog]

Question, how many turns do i play

 

[Sharog]

nvm that. i already toke a guess and played 20 turns.

Cyrus has 3 cities (atleast) before i found orleans. and we have no bronze, so whiping him out early is very unlikely right now and we risc losing pyramide for doing that while we can estabilish a strong core first are then go to war with superior productions.

after some scouting i found orleans 2 tile away from horse, (since we are not gonna win the early war might as well not rush with the settling), and i chopped the obelisk and barracks and a worker there, border expand in 5 turns, worker ready in 1, just enough to build the road and start the pasture, 2 worker there in total, so it can be hooked up pretty fast.

we are currently building another worker in the capital, and it already started on the pyramide, there is no stone near us either, so we have to chop some forest outside the border since we havent connected the cow and sheep yet.

i found another city just west of us on the hill. once workers gets the grass irrigated, it has enough food at size 4 to work 2x farm + 2x gold mined hill, which will provide us the necessary income and production for future war.

im currently researching iron working since we dont have bronze so i hope we do get iron atleast. should prepare a settler for it incase we dont have iron in our border (AGAIN).

mansamussa is crossing border against cyrus, so assume they will be fighting against each other Very soon. we should abuse that oppertunity to expand.

our southern land looks fairly promising, once orleans border pop no one will be able to access there except us, so there is no priority in settling there as we will be the only one to do so for quite some time.

and eh, no picture this time due im le tired.

 

[Mark1031]

OK I guess we will do a little build up first. We must get iron so we should have a settler ready. Just beware I have had Cyrus attack very early, he always makes me nervous.

Mark
Sharog
Thyrwyn- UP
Katank- On Deck
Shadzy19
open

Take 20 turns first round. Then 10.

We have an opening. Hope RL goes well bihary. It does have a way on intruding on important things like civ.

 

[Thyrwyn]

I've got it. post later today or tonight.

 

[Thyrwyn]

Greetings all (lost my notes, so some things will be missed; who founded and built what, for instance)

here is the save

The pictures say it all:

We got the Pyramids (though we have not adopted any of the new civics--no point) and we have Iron (connected) 2N of Paris (20 base hammers at size 6!).

We will be at war with Cyrus sooner rather than later, since he just built Tarsus in cultural threat range of Paris (and our iron). While I doubt it can compete with Paris's culture, it is too close to tolerate--we need to get ready (Spearmen) since "our close borders cause tension" will cause him to declare if we do not beat him to the punch. It's a keeper: Tarsus is not in a bad spot for us.

Paris just started the Oracle since it is only an 8 turn build. Metal Casting or Horseback Riding get my votes (MC is the best long term choice, HR would help us take out Cyrus. Another option would be to switch research to Writing now (if we can learn it w/in 8 turns) take Alphabet as our free Tech. This get us closer to Literature for the Great Library, which will be crucial for us. We are hooking up the gold to allow Paris to grow some more.

Ideally, we need more cities before we get Writing. What we actually need are some high food cities that can support two scientists as soon as possible. Our Archer in the NW is standing on a decent spot.

lost one of our exploring Warriors; the other is in the far North East

go team.

 

[LKendter]

lurker's comment:
Why am I reading the Gandhi mad science thread and seeing Paris?

If you are really playing France, could you do the lurkers a favor and contact a mod to rename the thread.

 

[katank]

No point? Pyramids allows Paris to grow bigger. I'd say that's a great reason to switch to representation (one of the best civics).

I can almost bet we don't get the Oracle. It's far too late into the game. Then again, we'll get a nice refund seeing that we are industrious.

 

[katank]

Preturn: We need to put some hurtin' on Cyrus. Start replace axe in queue with sword. I don't see any Persian axemen though I see an immortal. Swords are better at trashing immortals and taking out garrison archers than axes.

Turn 1 (780): Speak of the devil! Oracle built in a far away land. And it's Persepolis! Cyrus really should die now. Switch to representation and slavery to grow Paris more.



Turn 2 (760): Cashed in 42 gold for work on Oracle. Units starting to flow out.

Turn 3 (740): Started war with Cyrus. Sniped a worker.

Turn 4 (720): Killed two archers on defense with chariot (0.8/4). Axe moves to reinforce.



Turn 5-8 (700-640): Moving units up. Pillaging Persepolis. BTW, check out this archer stack of death. Not gonna take that city any time soon.


Turn 9 (620): Pottery -> Writing.

Turn 10-11 (600-580): More unit moves.

Turn 12 (560): Cyrus has horse archers! He also has 2 sources of horses! I already cut off Persepolis and consequently the city to the east from where the HA appeared! Tarsus finally grew to size 2.



However, an archer was produced there on the same turn. My swordsman defeated the archer flawlessly though the combat 2 spear had a close win against the immortal (1.0/4).

Turn 13 (540): Siege of Pasargadae.

First CR1 sword fell bravely in battle against their garrison 1 archer, reducing him to 1.8/3. Second CR1 sword defeats the second regular archer 0.6/6. CR1 axe finishes their garrison archer (1.7/5). Pasargadae sacked.

Heading towards their fairly new city in the north. Then pillage Susae and finally taking that and Persepolis. That may well not occur during my turnset though.

Turn 14 (520): Moving troops towards Susa and saw two archers and 2 workers in Arbela. Arbela looks real juicy


Turn 15-18 (500-440): Uneventful. Moving troops.

Turn 19 (420): Writing came in. Start alphabet. Turned science down to 0 and we are losing money?



Sacked Arbela at the cost of a brave swordsman. Pillaged corn next to Susa.

Turn 20 (400): More unit moves.

My legacy. Took the Persians from once the mightiest empire down to 2 cities (though they'll found another one soon but they will probably lose it and Susa). We are heading somewhat towards bankruptcy. We should consider declaring on Mali and burning cities and improvements for cash.

I balanced a bunch of tiles at the city with the gold so we breakeven now. We really need libraries everywhere ASAP so we can get specialists up and running. We probably can't kill Cyrus before catpults without severe losses. Let's see if we can squeeze a tech from him.

 

[Mark1031]

Nice work on Cyrus. We were so successful we are going broke. Good we will recover.

Mark- On Deck
Sharog
Thyrwyn
Katank
Shadzy19- UP
open

 

[katank]

Once we recover we'll be quite powerful.

Even in this state, we should try to prevent Saladin from taking that barb city to the north (Zapotec IIRC). Also, we are being contained by Mali once we kill Cyrus. I suggest we beat on Mali as we have a bigger front with them and not as much easy chokepoints.

 

[Thyrwyn]

looking good.

 

[Shadzy19]

Im sorry but im gonna have to ask for a swap , havent been out of bed in the last 2 days and still am pretty sick , i should be better in a few days .

 

[katank]

Mark, Shadzy wants a swap? Hopefully you are picking this up now?

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