Moats

[EweezE]

I think you should be able to build moats in Civ. After you've built walls and castle, moat should unlock. It would incur a crossing river -25% to any attackers of the city. It could not be built by hilltop settlements since they already have a natural 25% defense bonus. It gives the flat ground cities a better chance at defending themselves. It would even encourage amphibious promotions for attacking units. Moats would add more strategy and look really cool in game.. I don't see how they (Firaxis) missed this. Maybe it will make the cut for Civ5, hopefully.

 

[MasterofDisasta]

yeah i think its a good idea maybe even make it another advantage of castles - they are underused as it is

 

[holiday_hawk]

This seems like a very good idea, i doubt it will happen for Civ IV but who knows maybe if they make another exp. or a patch. We can hope for Civ V though.

 

[Clam Spammer]

I like this idea. You could make castles available with Construction then add moats with Engineering. Both produced quicker for Protective. And make castles obsolete later, of course.

 

[Tibur753]

It seems to me that moats would be included in walls. Traditionally, walls would have a ditch right in front of them so that a siege machine would be unable to get to the wall. I would include that as "part" of the wall building. Why would a moat not be part of that too? It pretty much just a ditch filled with water so that you drown if you fall in instead of just being trapped.

 

[EweezE]

It seems to me that moats would be included in walls. Traditionally, walls would have a ditch right in front of them so that a siege machine would be unable to get to the wall. I would include that as "part" of the wall building. Why would a moat not be part of that too? It pretty much just a ditch filled with water so that you drown if you fall in instead of just being trapped.

You can put up just walls and have a fort. But in order to have a full fledged castle, you need the moat (except hilltop castles). If they fix the current castle to incur the -25% on attackers (crossing river) then I'll be happy with Civ5's castle. Properly engineered medieval castles were often too daunting to lay siege to, and that didn't translate too well in the game.. Some people (excluding myself) seem to think that protective leaders need a boost. Moats might add the boost, being yet another "building" to construct.

25% defensive bonuses
Amphibious promo would null out the moat, just as Guerilla III nulls out the hilltop city.

 

[Onionsoilder]

You can put up just walls and have a fort. But in order to have a full fledged castle, you need the moat (except hilltop castles). If they fix the current castle to incur the -25% on attackers (crossing river) then I'll be happy with Civ5's castle. Properly engineered medieval castles were often too daunting to lay siege to, and that didn't translate too well in the game.. Some people (excluding myself) seem to think that protective leaders need a boost. Moats might add the boost, being yet another "building" to construct.

25% defensive bonuses
Amphibious promo would null out the moat, just as Guerilla III nulls out the hilltop city.

I don't think that is a normal moat. It looks more like a flood.

 

[EweezE]

I don't think that is a normal moat. It looks more like a flood.

Meh, whatever, it's a moat nonetheless. The darker water line near the bottom of the wall might indicate that when flooded, the water is even higher.. The angle of the photo is probably throwing you off.

The point of posting the pic was to show the defensive boost a moat adds. That castle (or almost any castle) would be a lot harder to defend without a moat .

 

[thadian]

moats...

if you want castles to be useful, wait a minuite... i don't even build walls except for the occasional Dun.

oh, and the only castle i would ever build is a citadel.

 

[Jerrymander]

You shouldn't be defending in war anyway. I think that Walls + Castles are fine, because they give 100% defense bonus.
Plus, if this did happen, wouldn't the Vikings suddenly become the uber civ of Civilization?

 

[EweezE]

You shouldn't be defending in war anyway. I think that Walls + Castles are fine, because they give 100% defense bonus.
Plus, if this did happen, wouldn't the Vikings suddenly become the uber civ of Civilization?

Maybe, but it seems not too many people build walls and castles as it is. Your 3 culture cities would definitely get walls/castle/moat though. Whether you fight your battles outside the city or not, it's reassuring to know your city is well fortified. The Vikings could use a boost on maps with little water.


It's not like we're giving the Vikings amphibious elephants or anything..

 

[Kiwi Tyrant]

Dont let the Amphibious promo give a bonus vs Moats. It is more for attacking a coastal city, or across a big river (I'm sure any river tile in civ is a major river, not a creek). Moats would be a specialised defence; Vikings are'nt used to storming across deep waterways, which ends abruptly at a stone wall, with boiling oil being poured on their heads....

 

[Clam Spammer]

I can see amphibious elephants being really useful for attacking that castle. Maybe you could put an anti-moat bonus on the City Raider line?

 

[MosquitoE]

Walls = used occasionally
Castles = used rarely
Moats = used never?

 

[Kiwi Tyrant]

Castles (being obsoleted much later) automatically getting the 'moat' upgrade as well as its usuals = used more often

 

[squid1111]

There has to be an amphibious elephant unit. Gunpowder elephant FTW-andit should have amphibious!

As for moats: castles are underpowered. Make them obsolete later, and moats may be a good idea.

 

[RandomPerson]

Yes, moats should be added and castles should be obsoleted later. BTW, has anyone noticed how stupid it is that walls and castles 'n such don't provide bonuses against Gunpowder, but they do against tanks and helicopters?

 

[Aemilius]

Hmm, sounds like an interesting idea. Maybe they could add a few more defensive improvements (high walls, towers, the aforementioned moats) and make them Fortifications, which would add up to the city's defence factor and could be countered by units with a 'sieger' (or something like that) promotion.

@RandomPerson: I haven't noticed that, but it really is quite stupid

 

[Clam Spammer]

BTW, has anyone noticed how stupid it is that walls and castles 'n such don't provide bonuses against Gunpowder, but they do against tanks and helicopters?

xcl

 

[Crighton]

I like the idea of the moat

and if i had any actual talent I'd make the dang thing myself in the c&c section