* Mod of Europe: 56 leaders * Discussion thread

[Rulkiewicz]

St. Stephen lived before Jesus and was the first Christian martyr.

Christianity was nonexistent , before Christ.

 

[Red Door]

Yeah Christianity was created by Jesus' apostle. So you cant say it existed before Jesus lived.

 

[CivArmy s. 1994]

I started making a Poland mod here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=141744

Would be happy to contribute my work to this project, especially if Poland could get the kind of cool art leaders as you did for your other civs, CivArmy.

I can make a LH for Poland and add all your stuff (city list, color choice, leaders...) Thanks!

Illyrians are an important civilization in ancient Europe. They were the descendants of the modern day Albanians, and contributed many great leaders and people, notably to the Roman Empire after the Illyrian Wars, such as Constantine the Great, Diocletian, Justinian the Lawgiver, and many more.

I agree, I think Illyrians should be in the mod. Let's see what other posters say about it.

That's another question - are we using English version names of leaders or original ones? Civilization seems to be following the former method (you have Peter and Catherine, not Pyotr and Katarina, for example) and I think this is a better solution (for example most people playing the mod would have no idea who Istvan was, even though they have heard of St. Stephen).

Maybe the original leader and title for every leader. I'm doing that with some mods maybe, a.e., I called "Henry" of Portugal "Henrique".

Here are some pretty interesting pictures of controlled territory:
http://www.euratlas.com/time2.htm

good one!

 

[CivArmy s. 1994]

I'll do my list as LAnkou did his one : In case someone has suggestions for changes, post Some civis shared the same territory in the past, not problem.

I'll do my list as LAnkou did his one : In case someone has suggestions for changes, post Some civis shared the same territory in the past, not problem.

01) Greece toghter Macedonia (Firaxis leader + another Greek leader)
02) Greece toghter Macedonia (Firaxis leader + another Greek leader) 2
03) Rome toghter with Italy (maybe one leader for each one)
04) Rome toghter with Italy (maybe one leader for each one) 2
05) Russia (two Firaxis leaders)
06) Russia (two Firaxis leaders) 2
07) Germany toghter with Prussia (two Firaxis leaders)
08) Germany toghter with Prussia (two Firaxis leaders) 2
09) England (two Firaxis leaders)
10) England (two Firaxis leaders) 2
11) France toghter with Franks (two Firaxis leaders)
12) France toghter with Franks (two Firaxis leaders) 2
13) Spain (Firaxis leader)
14) Portugal (Infante Henrique/Henry)
15) Vikings (Canute plus another leader)
16) Vikings (Canute plus another leader) 2
17) Denmark
18) Sweden
19) Norway
20) Finland
21) Poland
22) Lithuania
23) Serbia
24) Czech
25) Austria
26) Ireland
27) Scotland
28) Celts
29) Hungaria
30) Bulgaria
31) Illyrians
32) Craotia
33) Etruscans
34) Pope State
35) Byzantines
36) Switzerland
37) Neaderlands
38) Belgium

 

[Red Door]

No Minoans?
They were essential to the Greek civilization.
Also, as I said before. I dont like the idea of Pope states. Replace it with Holy Roman Empire. I would also like to see Belguim added to that list.

 

[CivArmy s. 1994]

No Minoans?
They were essential to the Greek civilization.
Also, as I said before. I dont like the idea of Pope states. Replace it with Holy Roman Empire. I would also like to see Belguim added to that list.

Aren't they toghter with Greek?
I think it is cool a Pope State, but we can delete it if there is space for mroe civis missing , I can add Belgium and I think the Holy Roman Empire would be toghter with Germany or Austria.

 

[Red Door]

They could be if you include a Minoan leader, Minos.
Its your mod and your choice on Pope States. I personally dont like it.
I think Holy Roman Empire is Completely different from Germany and Austria. But, I'll accept it if you include a Charlemenge leader. You could also say that the capital could be Aachen.
Thank you for Belguim.

 

[Prometeo]

Some suggestio for
Roman Leader

-(Caesar) Octavianus Augustus [organized - industrious]: The great leader of roman empire. The only problem is... if you win with the best score you will be ... "Octavianus Augustus" again

-Lucius Cornelius Sulla [aggressive - org ]

Italian Leader

- Giuseppe Mazzini(father of the italian "risorgimento") [filosopical - creative]
- Vittorio Emanuele II of Savoia (first Italian king) [spiritual - financial]

 

[Shqype]

Eh , 1 question ... this Mod , is it ancient or modern europe? Because Illyrians became known as Albanians beginning with a Byzantine document in the 11th century ... some of the groups you have listed above were non-existant in ancient times, while others are non-existant in modern times...

 

[Martinus]

Yeah Christianity was created by Jesus' apostle. So you cant say it existed before Jesus lived.

I would say Paul, actually, since Jesus is probably a mythological figure.

That being said, there were religious ideas (such as resurrection, sacrifice of son of god, etc.) adopted later by Christianity circulating before the common era.

 

[Martinus]

St. Stephen lived before Jesus and was the first Christian martyr. It would be more accurat to use the hungarian name I. István or Szent István. There is also in hungary a university called Szent István Egyetem / Szent István University. I think the russian leaders are better known in english than the leaders of "now" small countries. I would bet that f.e. in North America there aren't much people to know who is who in the European history. They even have problems with the geography of Europe and the location of countries. It's pointless to mention the knowledge of the Capital cities of European countries. (I mean no offense)

Wasn't there a Hungarian King named Stephen (Istvan) who was also canonised?

 

[Ad Hominem]

I would not include Illyrians, they were never, ever a united state and never actually had any "civilization" at all. When they got hellenized/romanized they produced a few leaders for the Roman Empire (mainly of the East) but that's all their contribution. The Albanians of today are a different people altogether and have very little to do with the Illyrians (besided the odd intermixture that occurs with different people on the same, roughly, ground).

The Turks are a much better choice, since any map of Europe (due to the fact the whole Aegean and a large part of Russia have to be included) shall include Asia Minor as well, and the Turks contributed much (positively and negatively) to the build up of Europe.

Having Byzantines with Romans and Greeks in the mod, is an overkill definitely. You might say the same about the Minoans, but they would be a lovely addition in the eastern mediteranea and I'd love to see them in. You could use as leaders Minos (to represent the earlier periods) and Idomeneas (to represent the Minoan-Mycenean fusion). As you have Etruscans and Romans (the latter took over the culture of the former) you can have Greeks and Minoans.

I could suggest a name change for Greece: Call it Hellas, to make it a) accurate, as that's the proper name the Greeks use themselves b) more consistent with the hellenistic legacy and world. Pericles is a great choice for a second leader along with Alexander.

 

[Skywalker82]

Christianity was nonexistent , before Christ.

Maybe i have something missinterpreted. See http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14286b.htm

 

[Skywalker82]

Wasn't there a Hungarian King named Stephen (Istvan) who was also canonised?

Yes there was. He was our first king. If u search the net for St. Stephen the first things aren't about our king but an other St. Stephen then some schools and churches. He can be found only on the 3rd page of google.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14287a.htm

I don't say that you are wrong Martinus, but do you know people, they always do misstakes and many of them haven't learn't anything about the history of Europe. I think that in N.A. the people would know more about christianity and the bible's contents than about the countries east to germany.

 

[Scytale]

How about Romania or Dacia? If you include Bulgaria and Hungaria you must include Romania too. You could use the leaderhead made by Shiro for Civ3. And I'll be happy to provide you with anything you want to know about Romania's history.

 

[Calantyr]

Heres an idea. It keeps all the civs that were present in roughly the same time span. It also spreads them out so that they all have spheres of influence but shouldn't have too much uncontested land to allow huge growth compared to their rivals. It's pretty easy to think up multiple leaders for each of them.

01) Greek states.
02) Byzantines.
03) Ottomans.
04) Mameluks.
05) Georgia.
06) Golden Horde/Crimea.
07) Russia/Muscowy.
08) Novgorod.
09) Lithuania.
10) Poland.
11) Hungary.
12) Austria.
13) Bohemia.
14) Prussia/Brandenburg.
15) Switzerland.
16) Kingdom of Italy.
17) Venice. - Powerful and influential enough to be seperate, and it was for a long time.
18) Rome/Papal States.
19) Burgundy.
20) France.
21) England.
22) Scotland.
23) Denmark.
24) Sweden.
25) Norway.
26) Ireland.
27) Aragon.
28) Castille/Spain.
29) Portugal.
30) Morocco.
31) Netherlands.


That should flesh out Europe nicely. All above were in Europe within about 200 years of each other. They were also powerful in their spheres of influence. I think it makes a bit more sense than throwing in a civ like 'celts', as Spain, France, Italy, Ireland, Scotland, and England could all be considered 'celtic'.

 

[Red Door]

Take out Venice, Morocco (African!), Castille (Not Spain), Burgundy, Pope States, Burgundy, Bohemia, Novgorod, Crimea, Mameluks and you have a pretty good list.

 

[Calantyr]

Take out Venice, Morocco (African!), Castille (Not Spain), Burgundy, Pope States, Burgundy, Bohemia, Novgorod, Crimea, Mameluks and you have a pretty good list.

*Nods*

That's just for if there was a lack of civs and if North Africa and the near middle-east is included in the map/mod. Morocco and Mameluks are the only people I can think of who could possibly be added to cradle the Mediterranean.

Trouble is that if you take out Novgorod and Crimea Russia will get a shed load of land to colonise without competition. You'll be looking at a huge Russia EVERY game and one that will steam-roll over all the other civs.

Same for Burgundy and Bohemia... Take that out and France and Prussia won't have much to stop them expanding.

Of course this all depends on how the map is set up.

 

[Red Door]

I think CivArmy is just making this a mod without a pre-set map.

Same for Burgundy and Bohemia... Take that out and France and Prussia won't have much to stop them expanding.

Um...but I didnt take France out so it would be fine.
But your right, it all depends on the map.

 

[Martinus]

01) Greek states.
02) Byzantines.

Uhm, not counting the short-lived Latin Princedom of Athens (which was a crusading state that never amounted to much), no Greek state was ever present even remotely close to the time Byzantium (or most states on your list, such as Poland or Hungary) existed.

Ever since being conquered by Romans, Greece was first part of Byzantium, then Turkey - until 19th century.