Mod This.

[oldStatesman]

<Tongue in cheek>

I am reading through the threads in this forum..and it struck me, the standard answer for everything seems to be:

Don't like the religion...mod it.

Don't like the map size...mod it.

Don't like the leaders, names, graphics, trade engine, animals, colors, number of units, combat system, .... mod it.

Holy Tower of Babel people, it sounds like there are going to be 1,000,000 versions of Civ4 out there.

What about those of us who don't want to be bothered by 'modding' anything...we will pay our $50 and want a quality product that is top of the line and eliminates a lot of the issues of past Civ's...can't they come up with a decent game OUT OF THE BOX ... do we all have to do their job for them? Heck, Why are they bothering finishing the game off..they should just release a Civ4 SDK Mod kit NOW, and let each and everyone of us build our own game.

Too much modding can have it's own issues...I hope that the designers realize this too and don't use 'moddability' as a crutch to deliver an effort that is less than all it can be.

 

[Craterus22]

Too much modding can have it's own issues...I hope that the designers realize this too and don't use 'moddability' as a crutch to deliver an effort that is less than all it can be.

Thats actually a good point...

Another good point is that they haven't released a patch to address the issues remaining with civ 3 Conquests and had the gall to release a game called Civ Complete.

Too much modding can be an issue - but having the ability to fix the problems in their game that they REFUSE to fix post release is a plus in my book.

Not really sure that they can do that much - which is probably why i will wait a few weeks after release.

 

[Colonel]

Most people who say that they would mod it because of one thing or another wont actually. Modding comes after the game has been out a few months and the first mods are effectively a scenerio with some minor alterations.

 

[tcjsavannah]

As much as I love this site, form posters probably make up less than 1% of the people who are actually going to buy and play Civ. And probably about 1% of those people will actively participate in Modding the game.

That's why I chuckle about the amount of people who DEMAND or feel Firaxis OWES IT TO THEM to fix certain trivial things about a game that isn't even out yet.

I don't think the developers of Civ IV are worrying about such things. There's plenty of people who bought Civ III right out of the box and are still playing it without ever modding, editing, downloading a thing. And I bet, if we contacted such people, they'd be perfectly happy with their copy.

Nothing ever holds up to close scrutiny, ever. And Civ has been one of the most closely scrutinized franchises in the history of computer gaming.

 

[oldStatesman]

As much as I love this site, form posters probably make up less than 1% of the people who are actually going to buy and play Civ. And probably about 1% of those people will actively participate in Modding the game.

My point exactly. (My original post was tongue in cheek for those that missed it ).

However, it seems that in almost every thread, speculation about the game invariably leads to someone saying: 'Don't like it, mod it."

The vast majority of people will never mod it...or play a mod. So to me, it gets tiring hearing that canned response when discussing things we like or don't like about the new release; IMHO let's all try and discuss these speculative things as if they cannot be modded...and not fall back on that old chestnut easy way out response every time.

After all, everything is really just speculation right now until a playable demo or release version is actually seen by the general public anyway.

 

[tcjsavannah]

My point exactly. (My original post was tongue in cheek for those that missed it )

Yeah, well, I decided to be a little more elaborate than just a "Me too!" post.

 

[joycem10]

My point exactly. (My original post was tongue in cheek for those that missed it ).

However, it seems that in almost every thread, speculation about the game invariably leads to someone saying: 'Don't like it, mod it."

The vast majority of people will never mod it...or play a mod. So to me, it gets tiring hearing that canned response when discussing things we like or don't like about the new release; IMHO let's all try and discuss these speculative things as if they cannot be modded...and not fall back on that old chestnut easy way out response every time.

After all, everything is really just speculation right now until a playable demo or release version is actually seen by the general public anyway.

Alot of the complaints deal with cosmetic issues. "I dont want pigs around my muslim/jewish city!" "No way Hitler should be in the game!" "They shouldnt name the religions!" "______ civ should be in/out of the game!"

When you're dealing with individual issues like these which dont effect playability but merely likes and dislikes, politics, nationalism or religious issues; I believe the proper response is "mod it". You cant make this game so that every one is happy about the portrayal of his/her or everyone elses nation or religion.

If this issues are like those that effect playability such as flows in combat, or those which are still leftover on C3C, then yeah, I agree. I want the game to be a decent product playability-wise out of the box.

I wont buy the game until 3-6 months after release because I know it will not be a finished product. After all the early adopters have beta tested it and the 1st 2 patches are out (and the price has dropped) Ill give it a shot.

 

[vbraun]

If your not going to work to change something you have no right to complain.

 

[Darwin420]

Well, if you don't like the way people are posting to this forum, then you should MOD IT!!

 

[Virote_Considon]

Well, if you don't like the way people are posting to this forum, then you should MOD IT!!

That's a good one!

I for one will be happy to learn programming for the soul purpouse of modding civ, if that what it takes to get it 100% to my liking!

 

[oldStatesman]

That's a good one!

I for one will be happy to learn programming for the soul purpouse of modding civ, if that what it takes to get it 100% to my liking!

I guess if you have time to do that, plus play the game and take care of your real life than that is way cool.

Unfortunately, a lot of us do not have the time to do that...

Again, I'd like to point out this thread is tongue in cheek ... I have nothing at all against the way people post on this forum... and I do choose to ignore those few that never have anything constructive to say... (no personal insults or attack implied or meant by this remark to any individual on this thread or anywhere in these forums).

My point was just that in almost every single thread, people discuss the changes intelligently for the most part, offering suggestions and or solutions or defend what they percieve Firaxis to be doing... however invariably someone will eventually chime in with the 'mod it if you don't like it' magic silver bullet. To me, that defeats the purpose of spending time discussing it...we all for the most part know of the announced extreme moddability of the new version so why have our noses rubbed in it every thread?

I thought that one of the purposes of this forum was to discuss the changes that we hear are coming, what our interpretation of them is, and if we don't like them, or do like them, or if we feel we have a better way to put it out for discussion...in the hopes that maybe someone at Firaxis does read through these at times and can hear our feedback. IMHO simply saying 'mod everything if you don't like it' does not give them that feedback, except to tell them we don't care what they do - we'll change it. The funny thing is, a good proportion of of the 'mod it if you don't like it' posts don't seem to offer any alternative ways to change it...

 

[qazxc]

Alot of the complaints deal with cosmetic issues. "I dont want pigs around my muslim/jewish city!" "No way Hitler should be in the game!" "They shouldnt name the religions!" "______ civ should be in/out of the game!"

When you're dealing with individual issues like these which dont effect playability but merely likes and dislikes, politics, nationalism or religious issues; I believe the proper response is "mod it". You cant make this game so that every one is happy about the portrayal of his/her or everyone elses nation or religion.
....

I think Firaxis should recognize the sensibilities involved and either stay away from controversial game constructs or provide a patch or a similar device.

In addition, I would strongly recommend that you and anyone else interested, read this week’s Commentary by Spengler column in Asia Times www.atimes.com titled “Muslim anguish, Western condescension.”

q

 

[Albow]

No offense, but after reading that all I can say is: You explain away your behaviour by saying "you did it first in 1088, nah na nah naa nahna!" - geez, I can't help but feel condecending now! (and the joke was, I didn't before - what a poorly argued text) ...

 

[tcjsavannah]

I think Firaxis should recognize the sensibilities involved and either stay away from controversial game constructs or provide a patch or a similar device.

In addition, I would strongly recommend that you and anyone else interested, read this week’s Commentary by Spengler column in Asia Times www.atimes.com titled “Muslim anguish, Western condescension.”

q

Must get awful oxygen-starved up on your high horse, kemosabe.

I suppose if you say that something is controversial enough, maybe it will become so eventually.

 

[qazxc]

No offense, but after reading that all I can say is: You explain away your behaviour by saying "you did it first in 1088, nah na nah naa nahna!" - geez, I can't help but feel condecending now! (and the joke was, I didn't before - what a poorly argued text) ...

I'm not sure I understand. Perhaps you could elaborate.
I find your critique of the article is a bit harsh. By the way, Spengler is a pseudonym. Some people think he might be Henry Kissinger.

q

 

[qazxc]

Must get awful oxygen-starved up on your high horse, kemosabe.

I suppose if you say that something is controversial enough, maybe it will become so eventually.

I perceive that you must be a tragic figure; being fretful 'bout the well-being of others, an' all. However, let me assure you that the oxygen mix ‘round these parts is jus' fine.

For the umpteenth time: either respect the sensibilities of all religions, or disregard all such for all religions. To respect or disrespect some and not others is controversial and patently unfair.

q

 

[CurtSibling]

My point exactly. (My original post was tongue in cheek for those that missed it ).

However, it seems that in almost every thread, speculation about the game invariably leads to someone saying: 'Don't like it, mod it."

The vast majority of people will never mod it...or play a mod. So to me, it gets tiring hearing that canned response when discussing things we like or don't like about the new release; IMHO let's all try and discuss these speculative things as if they cannot be modded...and not fall back on that old chestnut easy way out response every time.

After all, everything is really just speculation right now until a playable demo or release version is actually seen by the general public anyway.

What kind of response are you after?
A scream of an agreement and an angry mob besieging Firaxis HQ?

(j/k)

The bottom line is that no game pleases everyone and modding is part of the CIV tradition.

 

[CurtSibling]

I think Firaxis should recognize the sensibilities involved and either stay away from controversial game constructs or provide a patch or a similar device.

In addition, I would strongly recommend that you and anyone else interested, read this week’s Commentary by Spengler column in Asia Times www.atimes.com titled “Muslim anguish, Western condescension.”

q

Four words for you, sir:

Down With Political Correctness.

 

[tcjsavannah]

For the umpteenth time: either respect the sensibilities of all religions, or disregard all such for all religions. To respect or disrespect some and not others is controversial and patently unfair.

Somehow I doubt you respect the sensibilities of ALL religions. Nobody does. I make fun of Scientology because it's goofy as hell and a huge-ass scam. But it is still recognized as a religion in some places. Hell, I'd love someone to mod it in Civ IV. I want to wage a holy war against those guys. And there's probably 100 more "religions" out there in this great big wide world that are worse than that.

 

[zorven]

As much as I love this site, form posters probably make up less than 1% of the people who are actually going to buy and play Civ. And probably about 1% of those people will actively participate in Modding the game.

That's why I chuckle about the amount of people who DEMAND or feel Firaxis OWES IT TO THEM to fix certain trivial things about a game that isn't even out yet.

I don't think the developers of Civ IV are worrying about such things. There's plenty of people who bought Civ III right out of the box and are still playing it without ever modding, editing, downloading a thing. And I bet, if we contacted such people, they'd be perfectly happy with their copy.

Nothing ever holds up to close scrutiny, ever. And Civ has been one of the most closely scrutinized franchises in the history of computer gaming.

There is a girl in my office that until last week was playing vanilla Civ III unpatched. I couldn't believe it as she is not a typical computer novice. Needless to say, I have been trying to impart my Civ expertise to the young grasshopper