[ModComp] "Holy Wars" in developement. Asking for volunteers..

[surdanis]

update on possible opposition building to AP:

ok, my suggestion, and the best one imho is the "Masjid al Haram", which is the site of the Kaaba and the largest mosque in the world. obviously, it is in Islam's holiest city, being the destination for the Hajj--the big Muslim pilgrimage. while it doesn't quite fit as the center of the religious dogma (being that there really is no one true equivalent to the Pope and the AP in Islam), it can serve the purpose of two things:

1. Tie into your votesource for "Infidels"
2. Increase the amount of gold given for my upcoming "Pilgrim" unit (which acts like a mini Great Merchant)

graphically, i can't do this since i don't have the proper program to make models for the game. maybe someone can make a new model. in the meantime, you can just copy and paste an existing model for the new building. maybe use the hagia sophia. one easy way might be to make a giant cube to represent the Kaaba.

 

[johny smith]

Masjid al-Haram is already used for the Muslim shrine in game. The second most important mosque that is Medina is the Al-Masjid al-Nabawi. It is used by the Saudi royal family as well I think. But the Caliph was in Baghdad regardless.

And during the crusades the Christians were not united. They raided the Hagia Sophia even of the Orthodox church during one crusade. So anyway the crusaded was a Catholic thing. The Nestorian Christians lived in the middle of this the entire time. Anyway I hope that helps and just does not make things worse.

 

[surdanis]

Masjid al-Haram is already used for the Muslim shrine in game. The second most important mosque that is Medina is the Al-Masjid al-Nabawi. It is used by the Saudi royal family as well I think. But the Caliph was in Baghdad regardless.

And during the crusades the Christians were not united. They raided the Hagia Sophia even of the Orthodox church during one crusade. So anyway the crusaded was a Catholic thing. The Nestorian Christians lived in the middle of this the entire time. Anyway I hope that helps and just does not make things worse.

no, you're right, even the Christians weren't united, but we're working with what the game has, so i just wanted to get an equivalent for the AP to work off of.

but, armed with this knowledge, we can say, kailric, that the best solution would be this:

any/all shrines would be the votesource for the infidels. this allows any religion to claim infidel status against the power of the AP. that should work though you will have to make code, i imagine, for all the shrines. should be ok.

 

[Kailric]

Yeah, this mod isn't a Historical Crusade model to start with, but I would like to tweak it some to make it more Historical one at some point.

Currently I am wondering 2 things...

1. How will the Infidels counter the AP Holy Wars. Giving them combat bonuses just seems to defeat the purpose of giving AP Member bonuses, so what could other options be.

2. I want the Holy War resolution something the player has to work at to acquire and not easy to get going. Right now they have to pass Defensive Pact and Force Civic Theocracy to even get the option. Then the AI weights the power of AP vs Infidels. Defensive pact isn't easy to get passed but once Holy War is declared it goes away, so I am wondering what other Resolution that could be used instead, and I mean any kind of Resolution you can think of.

The Muslims, from what I read, really kicked off the whole Crusade period in time as they sought to spread their influence and religion. So from History what do we know that happens that can lead to Holy Wars.

K, I should hopefully have an upload tomorrow of the first Alpha. Things are looking good though. Thanks for all the input.

@ surdanis

Just make what ever units you feel like making atm. I am going to get the Resolution and Diplomacy options up and running first so there is lots of time for unit making

 

[surdanis]

Yeah, this mod isn't a Historical Crusade model to start with, but I would like to tweak it some to make it more Historical one at some point.

Currently I am wondering 2 things...

1. How will the Infidels counter the AP Holy Wars. Giving them combat bonuses just seems to defeat the purpose of giving AP Member bonuses, so what could other options be.

2. I want the Holy War resolution something the player has to work at to acquire and not easy to get going. Right now they have to pass Defensive Pact and Force Civic Theocracy to even get the option. Then the AI weights the power of AP vs Infidels. Defensive pact isn't easy to get passed but once Holy War is declared it goes away, so I am wondering what other Resolution that could be used instead, and I mean any kind of Resolution you can think of.

The Muslims, from what I read, really kicked off the whole Crusade period in time as they sought to spread their influence and religion. So from History what do we know that happens that can lead to Holy Wars.

K, I should hopefully have an upload tomorrow of the first Alpha. Things are looking good though. Thanks for all the input.

@ surdanis

Just make what ever units you feel like making atm. I am going to get the Resolution and Diplomacy options up and running first so there is lots of time for unit making

1. in response to this, i'm not totally sure. i suppose that you could make them get bonuses to any units with the Crusade Promotion. i think that is the most balanced since it doesn't allow them to attack anyone else really well.

2. not sure what you mean by this. please clarify.

as for your last part concerning what causes holy wars... well, the first crusade was supposedly started because the Pope wanted to recapture the Holy Land from the Muslims, who were supposedly harassing Christian pilgrims. in game terms, this would mean that the AP's holy city is controlled by a rival civ who has declared a different state religion. easy cheesy

other reasons are bit more murky. Christians seemed to have launched Crusades against anyone who wasn't Catholic... Catholics fought Orthodox Christians, and the Teutons slaughtered Lithuanians like it was cool. Crusading armies even sacked Constantinople, the Byzantine capital, when it was the Byzantines who called for help from the Pope in the first place to defend his empire from the encroaching Turks. then there was the Reconquista, though i'm not really sure that counts as a Crusade: that's where Spain fought back the Moors from the Iberian Peninsula. and then you have to consider the other side, where the response to the First Crusade was the rise of Saladin, who launched a massive jihad from Egypt (though this was not the first jihad, it was certainly the first significant one as it resulted in the recapture of Jerusalem, prompting the Second Crusade and the arrival of Richard the Lionheart and Philip of France).

so, in retrospect, it seems the Christians started the whole affair, and so i think the "infidel" resolutions should be only available in response to the AP resolution holy war. isn't that what you meant?


BTW, almost done with a new unit, the Marshall of the Templars, which I have decided will be a world unit, having only one instance. Furthemore, it will require a new wonder, Krak des Chevaliers, headquarters of the Order of St. John, which will act as beefed up castle by itself. The wonder will also one more world unit, tentatively called the Canon of the Sepulchre. Both units will be quite strong for their age, being so limited in number.

 

[Kailric]

2. not sure what you mean by this. please clarify.

Just test the ease or Difficulty of starting a Holy War

Alpha 0.1 is up for download.. get it here:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=6738564#post6738564