Modding

[Efexeye]

It kind of surprises me how willing people are to mod cIV. I've read countless threads where someone states "I don't like how X is treated in the game, so I just modded it".

cIV provides a unique opportunity- most games can't be modded to the extent that cIV can. To my mind, the designers spent a lot of time balancing the game the way it is, so why would I want to change anything?

What do you guys think? How much do you plan to mod the game?

Also, since it's not addressed in the poll, do you think that games played using mods should count towards the HOF?

 

[Mahatmajon]

For me the simple but INCREDIBLY useful mods like the clock/turn mod & city advisor mod are essential and great improvements. After that (and maybe some cool graphics modls) I'm unlikely to change anything about the game mechanics unless it's just to try out a full/major mod. 95% of my games will likely be straight out of the box games with no major tweaks.

 

[Efexeye]

Okay, then, just to clarify, a mod that does something like tell you how many turns are left (a "utility" mod), or a graphics modpack is not what I had in mind here, I'm talking mostly about mods that modify gameplay mechanics.

 

[Mylon]

Civ 4 is too simple for my tastes. If city is bordering another nation, pump culture. If city is generating commerce, pump research/commerce. If at war, build army/navy.

So far I've edited resources to be more important, made the cultural model less location specific, made cities bigger so players have a chance to use some of the many specialist slots they get (and hopefully engineers should no longer be quite so important), and made the game longer.

 

[Psyringe]

I miss an option for people who enjoy the game as it is, but still plan to mod it to make it even better (for me). The way the poll is set up, I cannot answer that I plan heavy modding (which is true) without also answering that I find the game unplayable (which I definetely don't).

 

[Efexeye]

I miss an option for people who enjoy the game as it is, but still plan to mod it to make it even better (for me). The way the poll is set up, I cannot answer that I plan heavy modding (which is true) without also answering that I find the game unplayable (which I definetely don't).

Good point, I guess I should have included a "I DO plan to play with the mod tools extensively, even though I like the game the way it is."

Is there a way to edit a poll? I don't think there is, but maybe a modgod could help me out?

 

[Varelse]

I've made an uber epic mode with slow research so I can actually fully experience each era. I hope to add my own civs and religions at some point, when I have the time to sit down and figure out how. As time goes on I'll tweak other little things here and there, and I look forward to trying out the more extensive mods made by other players. The game is not exactly unplayable out of the box but I'm not sure it is balanced real well.

 

[TLHeart]

I think Firaxais/take2 spent way too much time trying woo the RTS crowd with a TBS and fell short on both.

I will be using mods that balance out the game, giving back the epic feel, slow enough research so that I can actually enjoy using the units I just built, and not sitting down and playing an "epic" game in one sitting. 8 hours of game play or less is not epic.

The tech tree needs to be expanded also, and as I have seen suggested by another, bring back the launch your space ship and try to hold on for 20 more turns while your ship makes its way to alpha centarui. Added fun to the space race, instead of the enter, enter, build, done we now have.

 

[Efexeye]

I think Firaxais/take2 spent way too much time trying woo the RTS crowd with a TBS and fell short on both.

I've heard this argument before, but I don't understand it. Outside of the interface and the move to 3D, exactly what about cIV would attract an RTS player?

RTS's (to me) are about reflexes and practice. cIV is more of a thoughtful game that you can take your time with. I fail to see how cIV is ANYTHING like an RTS, minus the two exceptions noted above...

 

[TLHeart]

Efexeye,

you have it about right, add in the attempt to add multiplayer right out of the box, the much faster pace of the game, the smaller tech tree, the marketing, they were trying to get some of those people that play RTS to buy and play CIV. I actually think that is why there has been so many flames about how bad the game is, as those of us who have played since Civilization first came out have our dissapointments, and why we are seeing some first time posters (RTS fans?) saying the game is crap.

The marketing was aimed at people who do not play and enjoy a slow thought provoking game, but was aimed at those RTS fans, and some of the game designs have taken away from the enjoyment of making decisions, and enjoy the fruit, or flustration of that decision. Now it is 4 to 6 runs, and your last decision really does not matter.

I do play CIV a lot, and I do enjoy the game, but am dissapointed in the tottally crap civopedia, the useless advisors, until they have been modded, And the totally hetic pace of the industrial age on...

 

[Exavier]

Yea tell me about it... In all honestry I am an RTS nut. I disagree that RTSs are about reflexes and practice... thats what FPS (First Person Shooters) are for. RTS is about thinking on the fly and improvising with a given situation. I agree trying to put this into a TBS has thrown alot of things out of wack.

For me the Civilization series is like an advanced Chess or Risk. Its designed to give you time to think ahread and plan ahead. Thats why i play them (even though i love my RTSs). Civ 4 through me for a loop originally but with minor (well mojor in some areas) modifications I think it can be put back on track and give it back the reasons I got addicted to the series to begin with

 

[Flak]

My option is quite up there: I am planning to mod various parts to various degrees for the fun of it. I do enjoy the base game.

 

[Efexeye]

RTS is about thinking on the fly and improvising with a given situation.

Actually, every RTS I have ever played has ultimately been about memorizing a build order, memorizing the keyboard shortcuts, and looking up other people's strategies on the Internet, then, winning the game comes down to who can collect resources to mass an overwhelminlgy huge army the fastest.

There is very little "strategy" involved in most RTS's.

 

[Exavier]

Actually, every RTS I have ever played has ultimately been about memorizing a build order, memorizing the keyboard shortcuts, and looking up other people's strategies on the Internet, then, winning the game comes down to who can collect resources to mass an overwhelminlgy huge army the fastest.

There is very little "strategy" involved in most RTS's.

Well then sadly your playing the wrong RTS games or playing aginst the wrong opponents
I still play Starcraft and Homeworld 2 regularly and my friends usually referr to me as sadistic. Mainly because i don't do things the way I "should" based on internet posted stratagys.
If you just memorize the same thing over and over when you find yourself facing someone creative it can cost you the game fast.

Whats bad is your comment could be made true about FPS and TBS games as well though.

 

[Kolyana]

Uh ... there really seems to be a missing option here, kiddo.

From "I might make something small" to "IT NEEDS HEAVY MODDING TO EVEN PLAY IT!!!!" in one fell swoop ... what about a simple "Yeah, I'll probably be modding something".

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

I agree. I absolutely am having a BALL with this game even in its vanillla form (except for believing that the slavery civic needs to be improved), and can understand how the bulk of players could love this game without ever having to either mod it themselves or download the mods of others.
That said, myself and others had very BIG visions for how we wanted the game to play in certain areas (just see my sig for some examples) and so do appreciate the power the modding tools give us for making this visions a reality. I certainly do NOT believe this modding is neccessary for the game to be playable though.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[CautiousChaos]

The mods I make will likely be trivial and only for my purposes.

The mods I would use are more likely to be to add more utility to the game, like better advisor screens or graphic updates.

Mods I'd like to try are those that change the mechanics of the game to make for a better experience BUT I'm unlikely to use them because I'm concerned the AI wouldn't know what to do with them.

For me, the single player game is very important. And if a mod makes the game more interesting, but the AI cannot take advantage of the same, then in the end I'm not going to get a lot of satisfaction from it.

I will say, though, that I have been eye'ing up Mylon's mod. It looks like, just not sure that it will make for a better single player v AI experience for me.

-cc

 

[Efexeye]

Uh ... there really seems to be a missing option here, kiddo.

From "I might make something small" to "IT NEEDS HEAVY MODDING TO EVEN PLAY IT!!!!" in one fell swoop ... what about a simple "Yeah, I'll probably be modding something".

Uh, I already addressed your concern in another post....

...and btw, "kiddo"? I'm 30 years old!

 

[Mylon]

For me, the single player game is very important. And if a mod makes the game more interesting, but the AI cannot take advantage of the same, then in the end I'm not going to get a lot of satisfaction from it.

I will say, though, that I have been eye'ing up Mylon's mod. It looks like, just not sure that it will make for a better single player v AI experience for me.

-cc

If the AI becomes too easy because you can play better than it, pick a higher difficulty. This is how the AI works already and how it has worked in many many games long before Civ4. AI isn't any good, so the programmers let the AI cheat. Higher difficulties mean even more cheating going on. Hopefully some good AIs will be released when the SDK comes out.

 

[Efexeye]

AI is a misnomer. A computer can't do anything it isn't programmed to do.

I would go so far as to argue that there is no such thing as Artificial Intelligence.