Monarch Diplomacy Questions

Gudhjem

Chieftain
Joined
Nov 27, 2001
Messages
13
I've been playing Monarch level for some time now. I win some and lose some, but seem to have hit a wall and am not improving from where I was about 10 or so games ago. I've read throug several of the example immortal game threads, which have bee helpful. Most recently, Ive tried in several recent games to mimic the strategy laid out in Pete2006's thread on Domination wins in Emporer. I don't do nearly as well as Pete, and think I may have isolated the reason why: My relations with the AI aren't nearly as beneficial to me.

Specifically, my games usually go somethign like this: I wipeout or reduce to irrelevance 1 or 2 of the AI on my continent. At that point, I am first or near first in score, and am usually first or not far behind in tech. It's probably 1,200 AD give or take a couple hundred years. I almost always win the Liberalism race. To this point, at least a few if not all the AI have been trading with me. i research a path that they appear to be not taking and trade my tech to everyone that wants it, often waiting until one of the AI discovers it on its own.

The problem is that at about this point most, and eventually all the AIs stop meaninglully trading with me. This happens even if they are pleased (which I work hard to get by being religion neutral, giving in to some demands, etc.). Once they wont trade, couple that with the war weariness Im having to deal with as I start my third war, and I fall hopelessly behind in tech. I end up trying to capture my continent with infantry against tanks and helicopters. I can offer a pleased AI a tech no one has (e.g. fascism) and he wont even give me a less expensive tech that everyone but me has. At Monarch level, and I assume it's even more pronounced at higher levels, whether or not the AI trades seems to have a huge impact on outcome. In fact it appears to be determinative. You can't win without it (a disspointing aspect of the game in myopinion).

So, my question is, does anyone have any advice on how to avoid this AI refusal? I've seen mention of "choosing sides early" or creating a "trading triangle" wherein you have 1 or 2 good trading partners, and dont trade with the others. i've usually tried toplay both sides of the fence as long as I can to get the most that I can from new techs I discover. Is this perhaps catching up with me? As I said, at least some of the AI are happy with me, but still refuse. Perhaps others of you face this as well, though it seems in the posted and narrated games I've read, there is trading all the way through.

Any insights are appreciated.

EDIT: I'm not getting the "We fear you are becoming to advanced" message mentioned in a recent thread, at least I dont think I've even seen that, and the AI is ahead of me in tech, though not score. Does that emssage apear right in their refusal, or do you have to look eslewhere?
 
you're in "We fear you are becoming to advanced" situation
you don't get any message for this, you must hover the mouse over a redded tech in the trade screen to see it.

How to avoid it?
you mentionned already choosing sides and triangle diplomacy.
triangle diplomacy has not much to do with it, but choosing sides has, and triangle diplomacy can help avoiding loads of between AIs tech trades.
You need to get to friendly with some trading partners, and you don't want them to trade away the techs you gave them!

The other aspect is to self research most of the lower techs (the 1/2 turns researchable) and trade for gold instead.
 
Further to cabert's advice, my 'gut feel' on what you've set out is two things;

(1.) "Yes" to ...
Gudhjem said:
i've usually tried toplay both sides of the fence as long as I can to get the most that I can from new techs I discover. Is this perhaps catching up with me?
(2.) The AI's behave very differently. You have discussed the tribes as 'generics' but when establishing triangle diplomacy, you've got to know who you're 'getting into bed with'. Too many times I have considered Victoria to be a reasonably good early game ally only to find she's about as helpful as 'thingies on a bull' in the late game. Mansa or Montezuma become great colleagues only to be despised by every other tribe for their contrasting but equally repulsive characteristics. etc. etc. Also, don't discard the value of 'favourite civics' ... if you know you're running a Specialist Economy throughout, Augustus Caesar, Julius Caesar, Napoleon, and/or Victoria ('caveat emptor' on her!) might present themselves as better options than say Gandhi or Frederick who might start pestering you over Universal Suffrage.

Food for thought I hope. :)
 
Good advice. Thanks for the replies, and yes, apparently I was also suffering from some WFYABTA.
 
Try to play a game with tech-trade off it's not necessary on Monarch it's all about map but anyway continents should do most of the time for example. It's all about city management and choosing a right cities at war. You can learn a alot I did at least and it's a good indicator that you ready for Emperor.

In my opinion what you tech after Liberalism it's quite crucial there's alot of good techs hanging around ie printing press, astronomy, economics, corporations, scientist-method -> physics, consitution if you are runnin specialist.
 
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