Monarch Problem

[TomOC]

I can play Regent no problem (any Civ), but as soon as I move up to Monarch, all hell breaks loose. On Monarch, I’m always behind in techs and Wonders, and usually get clobbered by the industrial age.

Any tips on playing style differences between Regent and Monarch in C3C would be greatly appreciated.

 

[bonscott]

I moved from Regent to Monarch in recent weeks and there is definately a difference. AI is much smarter on Monarch. I'm getting ready to move up to Emporer as I've won all 4 of my Monarch games so far (very close though). I'll see if I can give some tips of various things I've seen.

1) More then ever a strong military is needed. Even if you don't plan to warmonger, you need a strong defense with a small offensive strike force to lay down the smack if needed.
2) I've noticed I've been in more ancient era wars which I really wasn't before. Be prepared.
3) Obvioulsy you must expand, expand, expand like usuall but you really need to be effecient about it and create a couple settler/worker factories as well as a military factory. Or alternate between settler/worker and spears/swords.
4) Going for any wonders before the middle ages are pretty much useless as you'll get beat almost every time. My last game I got lucky with a Scientific great leader and got the Great Library but it was a first. I usually target one of the early Middle age wonders: S. Chapel, Leo, Sun Zhu or Bach. Gotta get one of those, target the one you need most based on your game strat.
5) You will most likely be behind in tech, sometimes badly. You don't *have* to use the zero science strat but it can help in certain short stretches.
6) So you need to TRADE, TRADE, TRADE. Learn to go after techs the AI doesn't. I make a bee-line for Polythiesm now which I never did before. If I'm first I get a free tech. If I'm not the AI loves this tech and along with some GPT or lux I'll be able to trade it away to everyone for every tech I'm behind by. Electricity is another one as is Atomic Theory. Don't be afraid to trade away even a key tech like gunpowder if it gets you the lead.
7) Once you get the tech lead you'll probably stay there. Got to go after the ToE jump though which is key.
8) Use Spy's. I had one game where I was horribly behind. Every major power was modern while I was back in late industrial. I went zero science and horded money like crazy. Was able to buy most techs, even at rates of 4000 gold and 100 gpt. It's worth it. Then I actually stole techs. That game I won by stealing fission and getting the U.N first and winning by a diplomatic victory. I pretty much had no other chance to win that game.
9) It's just my style but be willing to get down and dirty and warmonger a little. My current game I am playing Egypt and planned on going for a true cultural win (instead of backing into one). How things change. Early war with the Americans secured my border (they started it) but I was still small. What? No coal? I build Longbows like no tomorrow for the first time every and had to take out the Americans who had coal. I build up a sizable late industrial/early modern army and have just been drug into a huge world war with the 6 power left duking it out 3 a side. 4 of the 6 are superpowers, including myself. So it's back to war to take out the Spanish and secure pretty much every oil resource on the planet except 1.

Anyway, I hope that wasn't too boring and can help someone. Been working for me so far. I've read up in the strategy forum on how different the game is from Emporer level and up and been using some of those strats on Monarch to prepare. It has probably helped me play better. All in all I really love the Monarch challange because it's not a forgone conclusion that I have won the game by the middle ages. My current game I just entered the modern era and I really don't know how I'm going to win. Someone will have nukes soon so SAM batteries here I come. Much funner then rolling over the AI all the time.

 

[TomOC]

Wow! Thanks a lot for all your tips, bonscott. I have been waging ancient era wars in my last two games (regent level). I find it easier to get ahead. Also I usually play small maps (kids don’t give me time to do the larger ones) so early wars are not uncommon.

I think I loose it on Monarch because I don’t micromanage my cites well. As you said… “a couple of settler/worker factories as well as a military factory.” I don’t do that. I think I delay expansion too long to build a large, but not strong, military.

I have tried the zero science, very unsuccessfully… Haven’t gotten the hang of it yet.

I did a TRADE, TRADE, TRADE game. I just got the ability to build infantry when the one who traded the techs with me, attacked! They got my gold, and they knew that I was behind militarily. No gold to upgrade units… I was dead meat.

Never had luck with spys yet. Spent a lot of money with no results. I hear you have better luck with spys under Communism.

I think I will pay more attention to micromanagement . This is where I think I fail.

Thank again!!!

 

[bonscott]

No problem!

I am a micromanage freak but here is a tip for that: Turn on the "wait at end of turn".
Basically at the end of each turn the game waits for you to hit space or enter. Use this as a reminder to quickly hit F1 and manage your sliders, check happiness and so on. Once a tech gets to 3-4 turns left, each turn until it's complete turn down the science slider as much as you can and maintain the same turns to completion. You'll eek out a ton of extra gold that way.

As for cities, I have all the "XXXX city just completed XXXXX unit/improvements" pop-ups enabled. Then at the least I check what that city is doing after completion. I adjust food vs shields and so on to maximize. Governors are totally off.

But I think you hit the nail on the head though. Once you move to Monarch and higher you almost *have* to micromanage or else the AI will walk all over you most times. It doesn't take a lot more time to micromanage as some might think. But then I personally enjoy it so I guess it's no big deal to me.

And you need to expand even more so then before but then you knew that.

 

[Admiral_Tarton]

yeah, i never use the governors; they are corrupt

 

[wilbill]

Read Bamspeedy's "Deity Settlers" in the War Academy. You'll be expanding with the AI in no time.
Learn which branch of the tech trees the AI usually researches. On Monarch you can research another branch and have something to trade. I usually don't do 0 research on Monarch except maybe for a few turns.
The value of gold is more pronounced above Regent. Be sure you build enough workers to road every square your citizens are working. Helps keep your treasury in good shape.
Have fun. I play Emperor for a challenge, am dabbling with Demigod, but still play Monarch for a good, enjoyable, relatively stress free game. It'll happen for you.

 

[TomOC]

Bonscott, I do have the game set to wait after each turn (and the pop-ups too)… But I’ve gotten so in the habit of just hitting the space bar, I sometimes do it without thinking… bad habit. You are right. I should use that as a way to manage my sliders. When I used some of the tips in “Deity Settlers” (thanks for the lead, Wilbill) I forgot to adjust the lux slider and I had civil disorder before I knew it. I have relied on Governors for too long.

Do you think governors can be used in a limited way? Or should I just not use them at all?

 

[Gengis Khan]

Not really, the only semi-tolerable thing for governers to do is manage happiness during war. They manage to mess that up as well (ie putting an entertainer in a city when a scientist or taxman would be enough). I don't even trust them with that though.

 

[dze27]

I finally won my first game on Monarch, after 3 losses. Thanks bonscott, I read this thread a couple of weeks ago & used a lot of your advice Especially the parts about the techs the AI doesn't usually research, more military and non-stop trading.

I had been playing on Regent level and couldn't remember the last time I lost so I decided to kick it up a notch. My first 3 tries on Monarch were losses. First I played as the Ottomans and tried a premature Archer storm against the Aztecs but got permanently messed up by Jaguar warriors on the counterattack so I aborted. Then I tried as Korea and stayed in the game until the industrial age but was too far behind in tech and got overrun by huge stacks of Infantry. Next I tried as the Babs and was doing pretty well, second in land area for a long time through to the early Industrial Age, but then got overrun by the Iroquois, and again when I was behind on tech.

My last game I selected default rules, large map, 11 opponents, everything random. I got Spain, which I was initially not too thrilled with but when it became clear that the map was an archipelago, 80% water I started liking them a lot. I also liked the Conquistador more than I thought I would. It's great for exploring. Seafaring is obviously good for archipelagos and Religious is always a good trait. My initial island fit 7 nice cities, plus a tiny island next to it which I put an eighth city on. This wasn't huge, but enough to have a good base. I sent a bunch of galleys exploring and found Carthage with some islands nearby that he had expanded to. Fortunately I had Iron and so I sent galleys with swordsmen and medieval infantry (couldn't afford the upgrades since I was spending a lot on research) to deal with three islands, gaining a total of 7 more cities. I then waged another war to gain a foothold on Carthage's main island of six cities, waited 20 turns to let the peace treaty expire, then wiped out the rest of the island, now with mostly knights, medieval infantry and a sweet knight army. Then I basically just hung tight, having enough land.

It was still early but most of my enemies had decent armies so I didn't fancy the prospect of a big inter-continental invasion. I got a lead in tech with the ToE prebuild, and the AI were all fighting so their tech rate dropped. I kept a pretty big military but stayed peaceful. The Incans were leading me on score (is it me or does the AI play that Civ really well most of the time?) but I was gaining on them. The Russians, Iroquois and Americans were all at near tech-parity with me, usually 1-3 techs behind for the rest of the game after I got ToE. I would sell them techs at outrageous gpt, I think at the end I was getting 700 gpt in trades. Basically if at least one other civ had a particular tech, I'd sell it to everyone. Or, if they had a tech I needed I'd trade with that civ and then sell to the rest. I went for space race. Got an SGL with about 5 techs left that I needed for space race, so I chose the Age of Discovery and the game was over in pretty quick order. The Americans had 3 parts built at the end. My first Monarch win

One amazing bit of good luck the Mongols had in that game, they had one not-too-big island with about 10 normally-spaced cities and all 8 resources! Why don't I get that sort of luck?! They didn't expand anywhere though and were WAY behind in tech so it didn't matter.

Just started another Monarch game last night. Got Portugal (that has to be one of the worst civs), large map. Got off to a good start but I'm still behind in score by a lot. Not many luxuries, but a good production base and short borders. I've already waged a couple of very successful wars. I'm behind by a couple of techs but I think I'll be able to extort those after my next war I turned off the space race criteria, since I always end up using that.

 

[Mano3]

Bonscott is right!

I just won on Monarch last night, but I had to break a few CIV habits to it, like:

Finally setting the Science slider to 10%.

Stop trying to build Wonders too early.

Trade all the time, not when I remember!

A big army with OFFENSIVE units tends to scare the AI a bit more than one of defensive units.

Swallow some pride in regards to being bullied and in trading techs.

 

[bonscott]

Well thanks guys. I'm glad some of the strats I use prove useful to others!

 

[GrandOldMan]

Great advice by Bonscot. I'd like to add my experience. The rush to Polytheism is a key strat, as long as you can meet more than two other civs before you get it. But I find that I can usually get the Great Library in that case, by letting my most productive city work on Pyramids/Oracle/Artemis until I get Literature. That lets you cut off Science as soon as you research Monarchy, until Education makes GL obsolete. By that time you are so rich you can buy your way out of any trouble or shortfall. Build no libraries or barracks. You want Libraries built by the time Education is researched, and you won't build Barracks unless you fail to build Sun Tzu's.

The easiest Civs to use if you are trying Monarchy for the first time is a Religious one. You get a jump on the Polytheism tree and cheap Temples. Plus a quick transition to Monarchy.

 

[Lab Monkey]

My tactic was to pump out loads of Gallic Swordsmen, ancient cavalry, or any fast units with a punch early on. A quick war is very good early on - you'll win at a good speed, and possibly double the size of your empire - this will increase your output and lead to greater things. Wipe out your neighbour before you hit middle ages and you'll be set up for any victory type.

 

[The Templar]

The way I eased into monarch was by making some custom maps that gave me an advantage (usually a choke point to give me breathing space until galleys) where I put my capital and then built up primarily behind it. Play a game or two like that to get the feel for the dynamics of monarch, then play an honest game.

 

[TomOC]

It has taken me a while to get to where I am in the game. I am the Ottomans, and only the Aztecs are left (large map). We are on separate continents. I am about 4 techs behind, and at war. I am Communist. I have a feeling the war will last to the end of the game. I have tanks... they have Modern Armor. We both have tried to get a foothold on each other’s continents without success (I love artillery )


They are about 350 points ahead of me. Only 25 turns left. I am running out of time to pull ahead. Any tips for endgame would be greatly appreciated, as this is the closest I have ever come to a winning on the monarch level.[dance]

 

[Birdjaguar]

Do you have time for a spaceship win?
Do you have enough culture and money to bribe one of the Aztec's outlying cities to get a foothold?
Do you have enough money to steal techs?

 

[TomOC]

Originally posted by Birdjaguar
Do you have time for a spaceship win?
Do you have enough culture and money to bribe one of the Aztec's outlying cities to get a foothold?
Do you have enough money to steal techs?

No chance for a spaceship win.

How do you bribe a city?

I stole a bunch of techs, until the Aztecs started catching on...
----------------
Anyway, I played it out. I figured out that I would pull ahead on the last move by 5 points.

However... the Aztec's built the last part of their spaceship on the second to last move.

I lost.

I'll get them in the next game.

 

[al_thor]

Bummer!

How was your Population Count? If it was higher or close to Aztecs, you could have just shut the Science completely off and jacked the Happy slider to gain big points (Points come from Number of Happy/Content citizens and Land Area that you own).

Still, you gotta love the way it came down to the last bunch of turns - makes it exciting. Most games are well over by that time.

I'm surprised that the Aztecs didn't Nuke you. He's been known to be trigger happy in that regard, and you did say that you were at war.

 

[rcoutme]

Just a couple of things that I would add.

1. If the Great Library is built on your continent and within taking distance (i.e. if you think you can take the city it is built in) then research like crazy to Military tradition making sure to not get Education. After you have a large enough army, take the Great Library and you will get every tech that at least two other civs have, regardless of what they are. This can put you into the middle of the Industrial age in one turn!

2. When sueing for peace, it helps to have a threat to your enemy (as opposed to having just taken a bunch of cities). For some reason, if you just took 11 cities but have no units in his territory, your enemy may perceive that he is actually able to sucessfully fight you.

3. Keep at least the minimum needed for researching progress. This may mean converting one citizen to a scientist (if 3 is the lowest that you can go), but in the very beginning of the game, I usually set my science slider to 2 (or 1 if I get lucky with my capital placement) and wait the 40 turns for my first tech. I always make that tech the most expensive available as well. Thus, writing or iron working are great for this technique.

Watch out for the problem of having your happiness change during the AI turn. If this occurs and you are not using governors, then your cities are likely to all go to hell. This is about the only reason, IMHO, to even use governors. Instead, if you do not use governors, make sure to check your cities to see which ones will become larger and make sure to check any trade agreements for luxuries that are about to end. Otherwise