Mongolia and Russia

[Spearthrower]

Russia is fine (for the human player at least). In fact, it's one of the best balanced of all the civs. It's shaky at first and a UHV is pretty dependant on expanding faster that you can hope to defend then rapidly catching up before you get into a war on more fronts than you can handle. The paranoia this creates is very entertaining.

If you're going to give Russia crutches to help the AI, be careful you don't ruin the experience for the human player.

While I enjoyed my experience playing as Russia, I think it also a wise course of action to not balance civs in any way around the terms of the UHV's at present as they are almost undoubtedly going to change in the future.

However, I am assuming we do want to balance them around the realistic historical extent of their realms.

At present, for human or AI, there is no value in settling Siberia beyond the whim of the UHV (for human only) and for picking up some gems.

Russia at present is far stronger if they confine themselves to Muscovy.

Personally, I found it impossible to maintain the required scientific output to research and build the Apollo Program by 1950 while paying for the 3 cities I had in Siberia. The only way I stayed in the race at all was by selling off all my tech constantly to all buyers.... it just didn't feel Russian!!

This most recent attempt was actually a very peaceful experience as the only wars I had were very easily controlled and I wasn't required to field huge armies, thus most of my production and money went into research. I doubt I could ever achieve the Russian UHV at present without exploiting the game mechanics - i.e. intentionally losing the Siberian cities.

 

[Enkidu Warrior]

Sounds like you need to make friends with the Mali.

With all that grassland, the Siberian cities can pay for themselves many times over with a bit of healthy cottage spamming.

 

[Mercenary82]

Siberia has space for about 3 fat cities around the Novosibirsk area and north of Mongolia

 

[MrThing]

Russia used to be too strong.
It is true, however, that she is now a little too weak.

 

[Zetetic Apparat]

Siberia has space for about 3 keshik-spam-baiting-settler-wastes around the Novosibirsk area and north of Mongolia

Fixed it for you. (Yes, I'm bitter. )

Actually, I haven't played Russia in recent builds but Mongolia and China seem to be interacting slightly better so the Keshik hordes are probably much less of a problem.

 

[Enkidu Warrior]

Indeed, Mongolia doesn't usually send a horde until you have Cossacks ready to chew them to pieces.

 

[Mercenary82]

Its easy to keep Mongolia off of your back, just keep him busy with wars all the time. Use non-military techs like music to bribe him to declare on China, and Persia or whoever is the dominant mideast power.

 

[REDY]

Hmm with Mongols arent problem to time when Mongols will collapse. After it starts realy fun when 2/3 of Russia anouce their independence and Mongolia is 1st superpower

 

[Watiggi]

Uh, yes, I am familiar to the Mongol history. But we can't recreate everything perfectly in Civilization gameplay (khanates as you explained). However, the point was to simulate the growing world powerhouse then its receding. So I as much as I appreciate your history lesson, it was not needed. Anyhow, Rhye's implemented the new Stability system which should work as well.

My point was that maybe using the vassal system for fast empire expansion and decay might be better for gameplay, that's all.

 

[Enkidu Warrior]

Hmm with Mongols arent problem to time when Mongols will collapse. After it starts realy fun when 2/3 of Russia anouce their independence and Mongolia is 1st superpower

The Mongol spawn area has been fixed, this no longer happens.

 

[Guest01]

Rise and fall of Mongolia can be easily modeled by following changes:

- changing climate of Russian-Mongolian territories towards far more hostility (and historical accuracy, btw);
- in medieval warm period, around spawning of Mongolia, adding a lot of horses/wheat resources by means of dynamic spread of resources system;
- maybe adding for keshiks ability to be produced with food.

After climate changes again towards «normal» state and additional resources disappear, conditions for sustaining large empire disappear with it.

 

[SkippyT]

SkippyT, St.Petersburg was founded by Peter the Great in the 18th century...

Well, yes. But they ruled the territory - and there is no other major city/settlement there so the Russians could have wider borders

 

[Lord Apolon]

Well, yes. But they ruled the territory - and there is no other major city/settlement there so the Russians could have wider borders

I don't think we should change it, but for purposes of argument... they didn't rule the territory.

Info from Wikipedia article on Ingria and St. Petersburg.

Until the 860s, the region (Ingria) was more Nordic than anything else; it joined the Novgorod Republic in the mid-11th c. (about when it would be founded in-game, I imagine).

It became a main battleground in the wars between Sweden and the Rus. It bounced back and forth between the two, and remained Swedish from 1617-1700. In 1703 Peter took it back and built the city it is known for.

So, I guess they kinda had the territory.. for a while. Now you know. Now I know, too.

The only thing I might suggest is more frequent (i.e. any) wars between the Vikings and the Russians. Granted I've hardly seen the Vikings war with anyone except Spain, and I want them to stop sitting on their hands all the time.

And I think changing Mongolia's climate would be too deterministic. Overbearing maintenance can and will destroy them under the new system. Not that they ever get an empire anyway. I do like the idea of keshiks being produced with food, though..