Montezuma Immortal Cookbook

Ay ay ay, Rome might be in revolt but JC's other cities are pretty revolting too. What the hell was he thinking with those locations? I'm inclined to let him keep them.

Anyway, on with the game, good job Obsolete. Where's our cottage this time though?
 
As for the first round, this set will also be 70 turns and go up to about Monday, where voting commences.
Well, obsolete didn't play 70 turns in the first round. So, is it only 70 more turns or are we playing up until Turn 140?
 
Where's our cottage this time though?

Isn't there an elephant tile that was giving 2 commerce a turn? There's your cottage!

Sorry guys I haven't been around for some time. To make a long story short my girlfriend is visiting me on vacation, and when two hetero-sexuals get in close proximity with the opposite sex of one another, human nature tends to take priority over all other. I will try to be around in over a week from now (unless I get into a huge fight over something) :P

About the save, what I was deciding to do was to make peace RIGHT NOW, and in 10 turns re-declare after he stopped spamming units and instead spammed more cities for me. My henge would get our stone in culture around then, and I'd start hooking up the stone right away, then chop the mids in our new capital.

If things go to plan, we'd have a bunch of cities with Rep and I wouldn't dare build a single cottage in this game, ever. Especially without a financial trait it just isn't worth it at all.

Anyhow, some may want to just continue to war instead, etc. Different ways to play it so I cut the game short at that point. I"m still upset that I missed a perfect opportunity to snipe a worker during my set, but I guess I was too busy rushing through my rush (so to speak).
 
Real life, ah yes I vaguely remember that once. The only thing that gives +5:) one day and -6:) the next and makes you feel you got a good deal. Good luck with that human nature.

Definitely agree about JC peace. From what I can see there aren't enough jaguars to take another city - Antium would be nice but can come later. With his metal disconnected and best city taken the immediate threat is gone and we have the matter of keeping these AIs off all our sweet grasslands to attend to.

Pyramids - do we have time now? I guess there's nothing to lose from taking a shot with stone.
 
...human nature tends to take priority over all other.

Typical case of "We have enough on our hands right now" :lol:

Isn't there an elephant tile that was giving 2 commerce a turn? There's your cottage!

That was kind of my point on the discussion of the disadvantage of settling on that tile (although GKey proved you could rush with axes instead of jags).

I'm a bit amazed that obsolete's save got chosen for this round as many players stated they would rather play a non-rush save and I thought Grashopa won on points (I guess bonus points were counted for obsolete).

About the save, what I was deciding to do was to make peace RIGHT NOW, and in 10 turns re-declare after he stopped spamming units and instead spammed more cities for me. My henge would get our stone in culture around then, and I'd start hooking up the stone right away, then chop the mids in our new capital.

I wasn't quite sure how to play this save (no Pottery, war with Rome), but this sounds like a plan.
 
That was kind of my point on the discussion of the disadvantage of settling on that tile (although GKey proved you could rush with axes instead of jags).

Honestly, this 1 commerce we lost by working regular ivory instead of riverside one does not make any difference. ~50 commerce up to turn 70?
 
Unless I miscounted, bonus points weren't included. obsolete got most of the later 3pts votes.

I counted 15 points for Grashopa against 14 points for obsolete :confused:
But I'll cast my special vote (yes, because I'm special) for obsolete, so it all works out.

Honestly, this 1 commerce we lost by working regular ivory instead of riverside one does not make any difference. ~50 commerce up to turn 70?

Only if you want to start a (reasonable) jaguar rush before turn 70 in this particular game.
 
I've already had my go at this so that everyone can feel better about themselves when they do loads better :P
I used Obsolete's save so if there is further acrimony over the winner then I'll play again.


Spoiler :
I carried on the war with JC and managed to wipe him out, despite a little trouble with his hilled cities (Ravenna and Neapolis). Unfortunately in the process I snapped my economy, and in the 70-odd turns I've only researched Masonry, Writing, Aesthetics and Meditation. Fred still doesn't have Alphabet so I'm researching it now. I've settled a couple more cities but Fred has taken the whole rest of the continent. My economy's just coming back up to strength now after a bit of cottage spamming.
Tech:

immortalcookbookplayalo.jpg


And Empire:

immortalcookbookplayalo.jpg


Now show me how it's done fellas.
 
Only if you want to start a (reasonable) jaguar rush before turn 70 in this particular game.
Plus the fact that obsolete didn't have a lot of Cities, so each square that a citizen worked had a greater impact on the overall economy--the better the output from the square, the greater the impact on the overall economy, relative to games with a lot of Cities.
 
I've found it harder than I thought I would getting back into to this game, partly because I spoiled it for myself by playing 2 or 3 hundred turns last week. Sorry, I just couldn't help myself - I have a short attention span :rolleyes:

It seems like ages ago. Who were our enemies again?
 
I took all Roman land before turn 95 and crashed faster than USA in 1929. Should have researched Pottery I guess.

P.S. I would love to see how obsolete can pull it off without cottages, maybe he will continue his save ?
 
STRATEGY DISCUSSION:

I haven't had time to give it a go yet, but my thought-up strategy is to:
a) Continue to cripple Julius
b) Get Pottery and Writing
c) Not capture any/many more Cities for now
d) Settle a City or two towards Germany, to secure some land
e) Anything else?--additional random comments


The details:

a) Continue to cripple Julius
In support of crippling Julius, the goal would be to explore his territory using stacks of Jaguars. Some Jaguars would have to defend Rome, while others would stand "guard" between Julius' western Cities and our homelands, preferably in Forests.

The idea would be to secure a Forest and "funnel" Julius' troops that head towards our capital such that they will have to walk onto flat, unforested terrain if they want to walk past our Jaguars. So, we don't need a total wall of Jaguars--we just need enough to force Julius' Archers to walk between our Jags onto flat terrain, where they will be relatively easy pickings and free Great General points.

We may want to try and capture ONE City between our capital and Rome, so that we'll be able to have a Trade Route connection between those Cities.

Otherwise, Julius will simply have Cities and Archers. We'll Pillage his improvements and use our Woodsman II promotions to keep hunting-for and stealing his Workers. Yes, that's abusive, but letting an AI get re-established by making Peace would be abusive and downright criminal towards OUR people.


b) Get Pottery and Writing
Pottery = Cottages. I don't care what anyone else says, if we don't have The Pyramids and if we don't have a lot of Gold, Gems, or Silver Sources, it's going to be hard to justify skipping Cottages.

Even WITH The Pyramids, Representation only provides a limited amount of Happiness, such that feeding Specialists off of Grassland Farms isn't going to work all that well when you're short on Happiness Resources, like we are.

So, to me, Cottages are the way to go.

Researching Writing will mean the time when we will have to decide whether or not to give Peace to Julius. He may not want to Open Borders with us, due to the War Declaration's hatred, but if there is a chance that he'll give us Open Borders, we can always take a Cease Fire for a couple of turns to see if he changes his attitude towards us. If we can get Open Borders with him, then Peace can last for a while, but if not, then we'll probably redeclare, to prevent him from building up too much again.


c) Not capture any/many more Cities for now
Like I said, we really want to connect Rome via Trade Routes. I don't have the map open in front of me, so PERHAPS we could use a really long, twisting, winding Road that goes AROUND all of Julius' Cities. More likely, though, we'll have to go THROUGH Julius' remaining land, which means capturing another City of his ONCE we have Roads built towards it.

Capturing said City BEFORE we have the Roads built will just hurt us. So, choke Julius, build Roads (say, on Forests while a Jaguar or two guards the Worker or Workers building the Roads) which will connect up our capital to the targeted City, as well as Rome to the targeted City (if Roads don't already exist there). It's your call as to whether or not to complete the Road fully right into Julius' territory before capturing the City--probably no need, as you'll have a few turns' worth of City Revolt in which to complete the Road to the captured City.

Surely, you'll be able to capture at least one more City, given enough time to build Roads to it, right?


The other Cities, unless you see Gold, Silver, or Gems, will be junk and just a big drain on our maintenance. It's better to use them as experience farms (killing Archers) and Worker farms (captured using Woodsman II movement).


I would also strongly suggest that you gather your roaming Jaguars in group of THREE. One to attack/defend from an Archer, while the other two to guard the wounded unit until it heals. You can feasibly still fight another battle with one of the two unwounded units while the first wounded one is healing, while still having a fully-healthy stack defender this way.

If you play it risky and send out lone Jaguars, you may lose them over time to spammed multiple-Archer attacks, which would then only serve to leave the rest of your army more vulnerable, as you'd have less Jaguars to defend the remaining Jaguars. Try not to fall into this self-fulfilling trap.


d) Settle a City or two towards Germany, to secure some land
Again, we'll want Road connections to these City locations, for Trade Routes, so continuing to capture and leverage Julius' Workers will help in this regard, while our Cities focus on producing Settlers. We'll also want to quickly set up and start working Cottages in the newly-founded Cities.

We should probably consider working a Riverside Cottage as our FIRST improvement in some of these distant Cities, then only switching to an improve Food Resource once our economy can handle doing so.

Our economy is going to take some balancing in this manner, until we can get the Foreign Trade Routes going (from Writing and a Road built to Germany). Don't forget to complete the Road south to Germany after setting up a City closer to down there. Or, even skip settling down there and just build a long Road (guard your Worker with 2 Jaguars, though, as a long Road without Cultural Borders spawn-busting will mean that Barbs will try and take out your Worker).


e) Anything else?--additional random comments
I see no reason to try to be the first to building a Wonder. For example, we're not likely going to get The Oracle in time to get a free tech from it, given our tech situation. The Great Lighthouse is probably far out of reach and we aren't likely going to have a ton of Coastal Cities, anyway.

I don't have the saved game open but I remember Obsolete mentioning something about getting access to Stone.

If we DO get access to Stone (which means also researching Masonry to build a Quarry) and if we have a City that has nothing better to build, then we could try and build a Stone-based Wonder for Failure Gold.


Sailing might also be useful for getting Trade Routes with Frederick, after we learn Writing, if we explore the western Coast. Still, given how our slow tech pace is going to be one of our bigger issues with this turnset, I'd rather just invest the captured-Worker turns into building Roads and skip Sailing for now.


Focus on working Riverside Cottages as much as you can and I think that we'll be able to recover reasonably nicely by the end of the turnset.


After Writing, what should we research? I would target Alphabet. We might or might not be able to trade for some techs (don't kill Julius off if you want to be able to trade any time soon). We might or might not also be able to steal a cheap tech using Alphabet's Spies.


After Alphabet, I would suggest targeting Currency. Chopped Markets with hired Merchant Specialists and/or extra Trade Routes will go a long way towards recovering our economy.


So, that would be my strategic approach and I don't mind if others try to follow it, or even just incorporate parts of it.
 
sorry i really didnt have any time this weekend. Can we prolong it for 1 more week? I promise i will play the round this week
 
Ok, just played a quick 74 rounds:
Spoiler :
I didn't kill off Julius so he would block Frederick a little. Nevertheless, the Germans got a lot of cities and still have room to expand. Built the Pyramids, but missed out on the Great Library by ages. Was thinking about whipping out War Elephants and Catapults for domination over my continent next.



 

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I'd also advocate extending the round. Yes, we want to get through this game but we're in no real rush. Seems like most people were busy this week, givn the large amount of round 1 saves I wouldn't be surprised if we get quite a few submissions by this time next week (probably including 1 of my own).
 
Here is my save. Exterminated the Romans, which was probably not a good idea since Fred isn't exactly forthcoming on trades. Ended up keeping some cities I shouldn't have kept, because the AI founded a remarkable quantity of cities in bad locations. Built the Pyramids and the Great Library, but missed the Parthenon by 1 turn (so lots of fail gold, but at a huge cost in trees). Thanks to Rep Scientists, I'm starting to catch up to Fred on tech. Converted to Hinduism, making him happy with me. Overall, not a great round but not as bad as I thought it would be after the slog of taking down Rome. The strategy discussion was too late, Dhoom. :( I would have played things quite differently if I'd not played half of the turn set before seeing your post.
 

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