MOO2 Darlok stories

[neilkaz]

Repulsives rarely have to worry about buying leaders as none will apply for the job that early, lol.

Yeah,,if repulsive I take almost any leader with any useful quality that comes along. Sometimes you can find a decent leader stranded in a system.

Never forget that you can wait until there's 1 turn left and then hire the leader to save maintenance if it isn't immediately useful.. ie a commando leader before you attack etc.

 

[scratchthepitch]

I've lost a few leaders I wanted to hire later because I couldn't afford them right away and then forgot all about them. Last game I played I rescued 2 stranded leaders. One I didn't want to keep, because I wanted to keep the last spot open in case another better leader came around. Several turns later, he returned, a level higher. Still didn't hire him. This was while playing as repulsive.

 

[vmxa]

Leaders will come along, just not real early. When I play a non repulsive I am shocked at how good some of the leaders that show up are.

Yeah waiting often leads to losing the leader for me as well. I tend to trigger with about 4 turns to go, so I am less likely to forget.

I also will sometimes have 4 ship leaders when I go to Orion and have to remember to dismiss one or lose Loknar. That makes me mad, if I mess that up.

 

[scratchthepitch]

I would guess it's about half the number of leaders that show up under repulsive during the early part of the game. Once the fighting starts, I notice that leaders will show up more frequently, as they get "liberated" from AI planets that get conquered. Sometimes it's a tough decision, do I want that first good leader, or do I want to finish that first colony ship? Having too many leaders and not getting Loknar happened once, now I always leave a space open.

 

[vmxa]

When I played out nocx's game I only had about 3 colony and 2 ship leaders show up. Mind you that his game, he already had Loknar. I had eliminated down to Mrss and one Coid planet, before I got the second ship leader. It was Mysterious X and I only want to get one commando leader.

I finally hired the farm guy just to have something. I had kept one of the planet with food eaters, though at that point it did not need him. The other colony leader was the lady that is an environmentalist. Not real useful so late in the game. I think I had already finish all the techs.

 

[scratchthepitch]

The environmental leader, is that Cassandra?

 

[vmxa]

Houri, she is the worst as she only starts with 15 for environment and no other abilities.

 

[neilkaz]

In game 5 it would seem that I'd rolled an acceptable start with just a UR HG planet in Nazin to colonize and spawned near the upper center edge. I bought my lab on turn 21 when half built and my factory on turn 41 half built and sent all available colonists to build the CB while slowly researching freighters with the 5 RP/t from my lab. Only Crassis showed up with his measly +10% labor but for 30 BC and 1BC/T I hired him. I'd not have payed more and perhaps should've passed on him. I colonized on turn 52 and on turn 56 my scout ship was 1 turn from completion and OH NO!

I met the Klackons already and while Kholdan is rather far away more than half way between Nazin and the upper left corner. But they've colonized Baaltis and then Choo aiming right at me. I'm 8 parsecs from Choo and there's a nebula in the way, so hopefully this slows down any quick attack on Nazin. The weak and slow Darlok race doesn't want contact this early and especially with a powerful nasty aggressive race like the Ants. Hmm..they have Impossible difficulty bonuses to help and are +2 farming and +2 production. This enhanced 50% by their Uni govt will make them a terror and place me in a very bad early situation. Of course, they initially want no part of accepting a research treaty, but I'll ask every few turns in hopes of moving towards more friendly relations with them. Perhaps I'll luck out and they won't get (non creative) techs for enhancing warships or will find themselves taking a beating from a couple AI races and leave me alone. Anyhow, I cue up a spy to start after I get my scout out. 1 spy as Darlok should be adequate to prevent most thefts and I can always place him in the Ant's camp and their spies will run home to defend.

Onward to turn 69 and I've scouted a few systems and Wolf is away from the Ants and has a UR HG planet and a tiny barren rich planet. I'll colonize that and try to scout into the right upper corner in hopes of finding some space away from the Klacks. There are two systems(Izar and Wazn) with a planet each closer to the Klacks but they aren't as good and I don't think I can retain them currently. I am researching Soil Enrichment to free up some farmers while building Biospheres with my 5 pp/t from the factories. On turn 75 these nasty Ants agreed to a research treaty and on turn 99 a trade treaty and relations moved towards amiable. However, they always wanted a tech for a NAP or simply refused. I wanted to give them nothing to help their ships or econ as it seemed that they'd not drawn a good lot for uncreative. All these HG worlds made me think there's Bears nearby. I also made a few FF's so the Ants won't think I have no defenses. I'll upgrade them to MIRV Nuke 2's once I get the techs and they'll also be useful for killing space monsters.

Onward to turn 146 and aided by more range from D-cells I've scouted further out. I've not met any other races and the Klacks now have 8 (!!) systems while I have only 2 each comprising two planets. I am far behind them in pop and fleet and buildings and have only about 2/3 as much tech as they do. Things look bleak as surely they will turn on me at some point. I am making and refitting FF's with 2 MIRV Nukes both for defense and to go after a Space Dragon on Rial which is a rich terran planet. I'm also building a colony ship for it. I've hired the leader Chug but can't use his terraforming for some time. I've raised taxes to soon hire Brainiac.

Onward to turn 167 and I've built an outpost on Wain in the corner and instead of finding some good worlds to colonize safely, I found the Humans there with 3 systems, but at least they became good friends. I've colonized Rial and brought my surviving FF's back to defend Nazin since I hope Rial is out of reach of a potential Klackon attack. I've met the Bears in the center of the galaxy and they are repulsive, but don't yet hate me.

Well this game sure looked like a quick loss for me, as the Klackon fleet was enroute to Nazin. I managed to build two more FF's just as the fleet arrived on turn 169. Whew...I survived to continue the fight by the skin of my teeth as all my FF's were destroyed and the last Klack warship was destroyed with my SB barely able to withstand another shot. Now I must make some more warships and hope to hold on and that the Klack economy and production monster doesn't simply overwhelm me. Zort armor, and MIRV Merc and EMG will be researched and hopefully save me.

A couple turns later, a lone Klack BB destroyed my defenseless Rial, however I'd recolonize it a couple dozen turns later. I soon met the Psilons in the lower right section of the galaxy and they were doing quite well and at times at war with the Bears who were suffering badly as usual. Psilons also became good friends and both they and the Humans agreed to stop spying on me. I only had 3 spies and sent two of them to the Bears and stole a couple of mediocre techs.

 

[scratchthepitch]

I find getting a non-aggression pact first is usually the easier way to a trade or a research treaty. Without the n-ap, the alien's attitude starts to go south, and then it gets harder to get any treaty with them. Usually on contact, I'll see if there are any tech trades they want, and do them if they are not outrageously bad, then seek a n-ap. If I cant tech trade, and they don't want a n-ap right off, I'll try gifting them weak techs they could use. That usually works. Once I have a n-ap, then a few turns later they will be agreeable to the other treaties, since a n-ap will raise their attitude towards my guys after a short while. Every once in a while, I'll encounter a race that wont agree to any treaty, or one that wants way too much for the treaty. Then it's a decision of do I give it to them, or do I begin building up my fleet to receive their soon coming attack? That usually depends on the way the game is going.

 

[neilkaz]

I've never had any luck in vanilla on Impos at getting a race that would(edit typo) NOT make an econo treaty to agree to a NAP. Once in a while when they feel threatened and are at war elsewhere they may ask you for a NAP even with bad relations. Early in the game with a lousy slow civ like this, there's nothing I want to give away and I certainly don't want to help an uncreative's econ or ships. So I just have to hope to survive if relations worsen. This is a gamble but so it giving them something useful and finding that they now get stronger and then stab me in the back anyhow.

 

[scratchthepitch]

They almost always will go for a n-ap when I play impossible, which is all I do play. About 1/4 of the time, they will agree right off, without trading or gifting them a tech. If I do tech trading or gift them, they will go for the n-ap maybe 90%. Once I got a n-ap, about half the time they will go for a trade or research treaty. Sometimes both, although in the early part of a game, I may not be able to afford starting both at once. If they are not interested in a tt or rt right away, I just wait a few turns and they usually will go for one of them. Sometimes, I've forgotten about getting the tt and rt and the aliens ring me up and offer one. Once in a while, there will be one stubborn race not interested in anything, and then I treat them like I do a repulsive race. Which means I will probably attack them first.

I don't really worry much about giving the AI techs, unless it's something very powerful like an Orion tech. I may hold off on a way unbalanced or useless trade if I don't need to make that AI race more friendly. Since the AI often trade among themselves, I figure if I trade a tech to one, I might as well trade it to all of them that I can. If I'm not planning on war right away, I'll usually make the necessary trades for the treaties so I don't have to worry as much about that race attacking while I build up.

The AI usually go to war against the player over a spy frame or because the player is weaker and the AI want to take a system from them. But like a lot of the game, it's pretty much random. Having treaties with the AI race often buys one an extra spy framing event, they'll often dump the treaties, instead of go to war. A lot of this depends on the AI's traits, which I think the game randomly assigns at the start. Those that are xenophobic usually are hard to get along with and are very likely to be aggressive, or war over the slightest perceived insult. They are usually harder to get treaties with, and break them easily. Expansionist is another to watch out for. Xenophobic expansionist.

Edit. - ironically, I just started a game to test out an idea for a mod and the first race I ran into were Klakons. And they were xenophobic expansionist. But they only wanted 1 tech for a nap, which is surprising, so I gave it to them. Didn't get around to the other treaties till around 20 turns later because I forgot. By then they were happy and willing. Usually within half a dozen turns of a nap, the AI is ready to do a tt or rt. About 40 turns after meeting the Klakon, I met the Meklars and Humans. Both were willing to do a nap straight off with no bribes.

 

[neilkaz]

@scratch

There may be some differences in the way the AI's perceive you early on in your mod since everyone starts with some techs and leaders come with techs. As a result, when compared to vanilla, perhaps the AI's tend to have a less unfavorable view of you early on.

I reloaded my saves from turn 56 and turn 69 and even by giving the Ants all three of my techs resulting is superb relations, they'd still not make a single econo treaty or NAP with me. Their leader is a Xenophobic Industrialist. I tried a couple times and sometimes waited a couple turns before asking for a NAP etc.

 

[scratchthepitch]

neilkaz

I've seen some stubborn AI, like your ants, in games. They are the small percentage who don't seem to want to deal with the player at all. Xenophobic is probably part of it. Another is maybe the program rolls their reaction to the player upon meeting, and a strong negative results in that AI being stubborn. If the AI race is a lot more advanced, or stronger than the player, that may also be a reason for not making deals. A lot of the game AI relies upon "if this happens, then do that to the player" type programing. It's an easy way to program a simple AI of the kind in the MOO series. You could be right about the mod influencing AI friendliness.