MoO2 - Getting Cre through the early game

[Tristan_C]

I was wondering if anyone have any advice on complementary traits and early ship designs for Creative. Usually when I select this trait, I am killed before things can get exciting with it.

My only success was with Uni Tele Cre, and this was due more to the starting situation than the traits. I didn't build a colony ship, just waited and pounced with missile cruisers when an AI showed up (Trilarians approx. t80) Beat them all the way back to their starbase. From here I just played defense against their waves of battleships until I researched all the guardian-popping techs. I killed the guardian at pre-warp t163, effectively winning the game (once telepaths control Loknar's ship, the rest of the game is a mop-up). All this was no thanks to Cre. It just helped with food and production here-and-there along the way.

Other games, using demo-cre, or anything really that didn't rely on telepath, just sucked.

Are there any ways to arrange for making this trait an advantage when it counts, or is this a lost cause?

 

[vmxa]

Not sure what the problem is as Cre is fine.

Settings: Rep -GC -SD Creative Aqua LHW Huge PreWarp Uni
Avg Age 8 players Impossible Anties ON Tactic Combat.

Several other Creative races work very well. You can turtle for a time and then roll over every thing. Uni/Cre quite strong. I don't count Tele as Creative is not a factor. It is not needed or preferred for a Tele.

 

[neilkaz]

Here's a thread where I played a Uni-Cre race and it was always a very easy stompfest. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=459157

I was helped initially by not being Repulsive so I could give a couple useless techs to the AI's to bribe most of them into liking me and making treaties, but I'd not expect to have any difficulties if using normal negatives like rep - GC and - defense. I'd go with - def rather than - att since I've now realized to turn ship initiative on.

You could also switch Arti for Prod+1 and have an even stronger production race.

I'd honestly not expect to have too much trouble winning as just Uni-Cre with repulsive and 4 other negatives and will soon try a game or two. I'm currently trying to Master GalCiv2, but needing a break from it and also am looking for another good turn based 4X space game.

EDIT: OK I played 235 turns as UniCre Only last night and even though my starting position was lousy with only 1 lousy planet to colonize in my home system and nearby systems were also lousy, the game has become a stompfest. I started somewhat inside the center of the right edge and feeling vulnerable (justly so as I met 2 AI's by turn 91) I didn't sell the SB and only sold my rax). I soon had some issues with enemy spies and had to spend a few hundred BC for agents, further delaying me. I stopped production of my 3rd colony ship since it was quite clear that I had to make some war ships with Trilarians expanding greatly above me, and Coids in the corner below. My attack on the Coids started on turn 164 with some MIRV Nuke ships and I soon had some nice LithoTol Coids slaves enhanced by my Unification.

On turn 191 the Coids surrendered their 1 remaining small planet to the Darloks. I went after Darloks a few turns later once I'd upgraded ship to MIRV Mercs with Z-armor. Just as I attacked the Darloks, the Trilarians, sensing that my original empire in the center was undefended, went after my home system. I took advantage of Cre to quickly get a MB and then FG on my HW (couldn't afford to add anything to my smaller planet's defense other than teh SB there so I lost that planet but destroyed some Trilarian ships). By turn 202 their attack was stopped and I was soon taking their planets and didn't really have to slow my assault on Darloks. When I stopped, Coids and Darloks were gone, and Trilarians are almost gone and I'll soon have autolabs on 20 planets and can cruise to win anyway I want.

My UniCre Only stomp party ended on turn 270 with me having killed 4 AI's and controlling about half the galaxy and winning in the GC with 52 votes of me own out of 73 total. Not a bad race, but I think UniTel only is an easier win.

 

[neilkaz]

There are many nice things about being Creative, which is why it costs 8 picks.

I'll go thru the earlier basic tech branches (you're often in a winning position by the time later techs are reached) and discuss some benefits and tech strats for Cre.

ENGINEERING

1) Adv Eng.. I don't really use anti missile rockets or fighter so rein hull is enuf for me.

2) Adv Con.. This is a nice for Cre as Factories are an absolute must. Missile bases are nice to have, although I won't build them unless I expect to need them. One can be rushed at threatened colonies and often you'll have class 3 shield by then to further deter the AI from counterattacking with a couple ships while your invasion fleet romps.
Heavy Armor can save your SB some times or allow it to get off a couple more shots. I find it useful once I switch over to beams.

3) Capsule Con.. BP are a must, and Survival Pods is a nice bonus (esp as Rep don't get many leaders anyhow).

4) Astro Eng.. Space Ports are a must and Fighter Garrisons can also offer cheap added planet defence.

5) Robotics.. A great tech that I want to get to rather quickly. Robo-Miners are a must for any civ, IMHO and as Uni that +2 prod is really +3/worker !! Powered Armor is extremely nice for attacking and also for capturing ships. My -10 GC pick is negated and now my troops take 2 hits to kill. The net effect is that my troops are more than twice as strong. PA is so fun, that occasionally, I've gone for it as non Cre when I was quite sure that I could steal or Trade for Robo-Miners. Battle Stations can be useful if your having some CP issues or simply want to make some planets less attractive as targets for the AI. However, I don't often upgrade to many of them.

CHEMISTRY

As always and if using missiles early on as I do, you want to tech rather quickly the Z-armor level.

1) Adv Met.. This is nice since you can't reach much of anything without Deut Cells and Trit armor can save you if AI's decide to jump on you early.

2) Adv Chem.. Also nice since you need Mercs to take out the Guardian early and PP's are cheap enough and a nice help to reducing what will be a growing pollution problem as your production increase. Once you get Nano Disassemblers, you can often build a PP on developing new colonies and have little loss to pollution.

3) Mol Comp.. Atmos Renewer is very helpful for reducing pollution on those high prod ship yards that you'll use to win the game. I'd rather have my SB's shooting Pulsons than Mercs although I am unsure whether they'd then hold more Mercs due to miniturization. Irridium Cells means that you can reach almost anything near you even in a Huge galaxy and certainly you can always add an outpost or two to make sure of getting to Orion even from a corner.

4) Nano Tech.. Reaching this tech will usually mean a win for any good human controlled Cre empire that has a couple of good shipyards since Merc's can now be MIRVed and the production econ is gets a big boost. Z-armor is a nice upgrade from Trit but the real gains are economic as Microlite Construction gives all worker +1 pp for free (which is actually +1.5 for Uni). Nano Dis helps to further reduce pollution again instantly and for free.

COMPUTERS

1) Optronics.. Research Labs are an absolute must. Optronic Comp will help ur SB's beams hit more often. DGS can make a difference in battle, but also means that your extra missiles may go crashing into the planet under attack if said planet has planetary defenses. So if you launch too many missiles, you may total destroy the planet's stuff you'd like to capture.

2) AI.. Neural Scanner helps spies since as Cre you're often trying to defend to protect all those techs. I've never used Scout Labs or Security Stations. Anyhow this tech is basically needed as a pre-req to the following tech.

3) Positronics.. Supercomps are an absolute must. Pos Comp again helps the SB hit more often. Holo Sim is often the only moral building I build (other than a barracks if needed) when play Cre and not Uni since the game is often over before I get more moral building techs.

4) Artificial Consciousness.. EMG is so good it is almost cheating! I've destroyed early TT's with just a couple of EMG1 FF's (Tiny Ships with battle pods have 37 space for weapons and can just cram in 1 FU EMG MIRV Merc). Perhaps I don't make enough use of Range Master Unit, but have seen the difference when my SB's are attacked. However, a Cre will have the +75 computer and, of course battle scanner by now. Cyber Security Net is again a nice free spy upgrade.

5) Cybertronics.. This is a great tech for a Cre as the computer upgrade is useful. Autolabs are often a game breaking addition to one's research. I don't recall ever losing a game, even playing a weak race if I could get Autolabs on 10 or more planets. Structural Analyser is a superb tech since any beam damage that gets thru shields does double damage. It now will be time to switch over to beams for a Cre since now you have a +100 comp and S.A to make beams deadly and your enemies likely have missile defenses on ships which will now become useless. If you switch over before taking Orion, note that I've carved the Guardian up easily with Graviton Beams enhanced by S.A.

PHYSICS

1) Fusion Physics.. As an early missile guy, I still am happy to get Fusion Beam for PD. If not Cre I'd go for Fusion Rifle (unless Tele) as any troop upgrade is useful when I invade and conquer planets.

2) Tachyon Physics.. Battle Scanners are a must or your SB's can't hit anything with beams until you have good computers. Tach Comms is a nice tech to improve your early CP issues, but most of the time a non-Cre has to take Battle Scanners instead and wait for Subspace Comms. Tachyon Scanner helps a bit.

3) Neutrino Physics.. Neutron Blasters are often the first good beam weapon I have to shoot from my SB's and have saved my butt a few times. They also kill enemy marines and that can be useful for capturing enemy ships and bases. Neutron Scanner is somewhat useful as well.

4) Artificial Grav.. Grav Beams are a nice weapon due to the added structural damage. One normally needs Grav Generators and they turn UR HG planets into great ship yards. I rarely use tractor beams, preferring to capture ships with assault shuttles and/or transporters.

5) Subspace Physics.. Subspace Comms typically end most any CP problems. Jump gates are great for helping to defend a sprawling empire.

6) Multi-Phased Physics.. Phasors are nice weapons with good mods and are also useful for PD. Phasor rifles help, but obsolete after the next tech. I rarely bother to take up space with Multi-Phased Shields.

7) Plasma Physics.. Plasma Cannons are very effective since they're enveloping. However, due to double range dissipation, you want them on ships with Aug Engines so you can get close to the targets. Since you have to close in, I also want Heavy Armor on these ships.
I don't use Plasma Webs, but have suffered enough from enemies that do so I should give 'em a try sometime.

POWER

1) Adv Fission.. Aug Engines are a very useful for some ships, especially big slow battleships equipped with beams that want to survive several turns, and especially with Ship Initiative on. Fusion drive is nice but soon obsoleted by Ion Drive. I don't usually use fusion bombs since I can hit planets with missiles or use good beams (inspite of doing half damage).

2) Ion Fission.. Ion Drive is a nice boost to speed. Shield Cap is useful if you have good shields. Ion Pulse Cannons can be useful, but suffer from being bulky and range limited and also are stopped by reasonable shielding.

3) Anti-Matter Fission.. All drive improvements are nice for S.I. and beam defense and of course mobility. I find that most enemy ships can't get away from being captured by my ships equipped with A-M drive and Aug Engines and loaded with assault shuttles. I rarely use torpedos or bombs.

4) Matter-Energy Conversion.. Transporters are great for capturing enemy ships and sometimes a well defended ship can stay undestroyed for a few turns and capture enemy ships each turn if GC levels are high. Food replicators cost too much maintenance (perhaps a bug) and are not needed.

5) High Enegy Distribution.. This great tech offers 3 useful things for Cre ship. Megafluxers add 25% room for High Energy Focus to make beams more deadly and Energy Absorber for added defense with some counter attack.

 

[Tristan_C]

^
problem here is that this does not seem to be a discussion of tradeoffs. Of course every tech level brings benefits— that doesn't really require explanations. But what paths are you willing to pursue at the expense of others. For instance with augmented engines, ships might not need more initiative if they already have optronic computers (which non-creative races may forego in favor of the research lab); further to the point, when we are thinking about where to spend 250~500 research points, knowing that this takes a lot of effort in the early game, I would think that Tachyon physics is vastly more powerful than Adv. Fission for creatives.


One issue I was mulling over is whether Creative makes the shield tech route more viable. Non-creative races can make crazy-strong 2-shot missile boats and pick up economic techs in the process, and shields seem to get pushed aside more with this. With Fast Racks, often the battle is over before shielding is even used. Creative races who do this route may not get through it as quickly, but will pick up even more well-rounded techs. Where does that leave shield/beam ships? There isn't much of anything for your economy in force fields or physics.

 

[scratchthepitch]

Tristan_C

"But what paths are you willing to pursue at the expense of others."

That depends mostly on the situation in the game. I usually research to get colony ships, auto factories, research labs and hydro farms early on. Once these are running, then I expand and see what is around, and who is around. While doing that, I try to research all the lower techs and then work on a planet improvement route, rather than ship improvement. If I don't have many farmable planets, then terraforming techs are focused on - soil enrichment, radiation shields, gravity generators and terraforming mainly. If running out of funds, spaceport and stock exchanges. While doing that I will still work for robo-miners, pollution processors and atmospheric renewers. Pollution processors soon after getting auto-factories and the first colony ship done.

If it turns out there are repulsive or hostile AI nearby, then I focus on production buildings and ship techs asap. I hold off on building beam ships till my total hitting percentage is 100% or more (2nd or 3rd computer plus battle scanner) and go with missiles and fighter armed ships till then. What beam ships I will build at that early stage will be what I call point defense ships, destroyers armed with regular beams to shoot up incoming fighters and missiles. Each game tends to be different, except that I play using huge galaxies and 8 opponents.

Is that something like what you are looking for?

 

[neilkaz]

Thx for the helpful comments. I'll finish that tech review geared for creatives over the weekend and probably change a few things from time to time. My purpose in posting it is to allow others to see some of the things used in reasoning out what may be best to pursue.

Agreed that Aug engines aren't generally needed on missile ships. (I do sometimes put them on small EMG ships since they can close in for the kill shot right next to the victim). For initive purpose you may actually have Positronic Comps by then since they come along with Supercomputers which are a big boost for research. Non Uni's really want that tech since Holo Simulator grants a nice 20% moral boost and comes early enough to be quite a factor. The main reason for a Cre to get the tech with Aug engines rather early is Fusion drive for the speed increase which means less time spent getting from system to system and means that freighters transporting colonists arrive quicker as well. Yes, Tachyon Physics is a nice tech for Cre, but you don't need it if you won't be at war soon or unless you have some CP issues if you make a couple more ships in hopes of deterring violent AI's.

IMHO the trade off between pursuing Chemistry vs Shields and/or Physics is even more strongly tilted towards Chem for Cre than for non-Cre! Just about every Chem tech has massive payoffs to Creatives for economy, range, missile weapons and armor. Along with Zort armor, comes a pollution control achievement (ie free and instant) and +1 production (which would cost 3 picks for a custom race). This combined with the pollution controls buildings and 9 range from Ir Cells seems vastly superior to anything that can come from similar tech spending in on shields or physics.

The problem is that beamships need to be able to last in battle and fire their weapons several+ turns to be effective. Thus you need some armor anyhow. So you can stop at Trit Armor (400 RP) but then you have no pollution control so you want to spend 650 more RP, but then you can MIRV nukes and this is reasonably effective early on.

I started my 2nd UniCre Only game and while my home system sucked, there was a pop 20 Gaia nearby and I wasn't feeling threatened til I met the Coids so I was able to head quickly for Supercomps and now have great early research for this race. I finished Zort armor on turn 153 and in the subsequent war vs the Coids they had no chance vs MIRV Merc ships. I put the good computer on my small missile ships (DD's) since I wanted make sure they could move and shoot first and it added only 15 pp to cost, but left it off my BB since it added over 100 in cost. As a result my missle battleship couldn't shoot first and often had to bug out before hordes of fighters would overwhelm it.

If I decide to make a point defense ship to deal with fighters, I'll make sure it has plenty of survivability and also Aug Eng so it can close in on them quickly.

One thing that I haven't used very often is Fast Missile racks since they take up space and my testing showed that a BB now can hold only 15 FU MIRVs vs 18 without taking up space. I can normally fire both volleys of missiles anyhow and then bug out, but in this Coid war that sometimes isn't the case. I can easily kill anything they have with missiles but they have good beams and fighters closing quickly in on my ships. This might be a great time for fast missile racks and just fire all at once and retreat while having a couple of scout ships to head for the corners while waiting for the missiles to hit.

 

[Arimae70]

What class ships, and how many, do you guys build for the initial line of defense/exploration?

 

[Tristan_C]

What class ships, and how many, do you guys build for the initial line of defense/exploration?

vmxa said earlier that creative was neither needed nor preferred for a tele. But the Uni-Tele-Cre game was a very, very instructive game to me because it introduced me to the art of letting the AIs build my colony ships while I focused on early armed ship designs.

exploration?
The first ships are frigates with fuel tanks and should never carry a leader (eg. a navigator). Any exploring ship less powerful than an anti-guardian fleet will eventually get killed. ~30 bc is not a high price to pay for information though.

line of defense?
Good offense. ↓

IMHO the trade off between pursuing Chemistry vs Shields and/or Physics is even more strongly tilted towards Chem for Cre than for non-Cre! Just about every Chem tech has massive payoffs to Creatives for economy, range, missile weapons and armor. Along with Zort armor, comes a pollution control achievement (ie free and instant) and +1 production (which would cost 3 picks for a custom race). This combined with the pollution controls buildings and 9 range from Ir Cells seems vastly superior to anything that can come from similar tech spending in on shields or physics.

The problem is that beamships need to be able to last in battle and fire their weapons several+ turns to be effective. Thus you need some armor anyhow. So you can stop at Trit Armor (400 RP) but then you have no pollution control so you want to spend 650 more RP, but then you can MIRV nukes and this is reasonably effective early on.

This is probably best. In the early game (pre-warp t80-150ish on impossible) I think these ships are 1 battleship or 2 cruisers; they will generally be able to punch through any AI fleet + starbase of their time period. I think the time frame for equally reliable beam ships is a bit later. Certainly for fighting monsters, your options are either missile ships, missile ships, or sometimes missile ships.


Here are tradeoffs for Shield III + AF Mass Driver ships though.

The main issue, as he points out, is foregoing Chemistry. Some circumstances help this. Often the environmentalist leader shows up. Keeping down to 2-5 workers, but never moving them (keeping production steady) also helps. Not getting 9 parsec ship range just hurts, though.

• 50 RP: mandatory
• 250 RP: 6 range, Tritanium - mandatory - researching after this point, the case for beam ships becomes quite weak
• 650 RP: Missile Ship: MIRV nukes, pollution control
• 1150 RP: Missile Ship: 9 range, more pollution control

The force field techs needed for the Shield III AF mass drivers cost

250 + 650 + 900 RP - This is where your beam ships' foregone chemistry research has to go. Note that it is the same cost. For losing out on 9 range and pollution controls, you at least get +10 ground combat, Inertial Stabilizers, warp dissipators, ECM, and radiation shields. Not too terrible...​

Fortunately both missile ships and beam ships will want levels in physics for accuracy:

• 250 RP: tachyon scanners for missiles; Battle Scanner for beams - requires cargo space but improves initiative
• 900 RP: Neutron scanner: Recommended for missile ships, whereas beams can laugh and do something like Ion Fission (900 RP) instead, for ion drives and a shield capacitor.

I do not know about the utility of a shield capacitor with Shield III. I do know that creatives can make a nearly impregnable ship eventually with a capacitor, multi-phased shields, and hard shields. It can just sit back and shout down any defense over time.

 

[Tristan_C]

OK, I have a little game summary.

I wanted to try the creative mass driver ships out. I haven't played many games of Moo2, and I kind of suck at Moo2 to be frank, but this match seemed to work out just fine.

Setting:

Small
Pre-Warp
Organic
2 rivals
Antarans on
No events
Impossible​

My picks:

Democratic
Creative
Omniscient
Rich HW
-50% pop
Repulsive​

I'm afraid I didn't save the game until the end, but I have screenshots from the turn of victory so at least the layout can be seen. Starting system had an Average Abundant Desert world. Ubar system, my colony, will be discussed just below.

- Omniscient payed off immediately. It does that sometimes. I'd sooner take eyesight than +1 Sci or +1 Ind on any race; knowing where to deploy resources and what to plan for is, itself, worth a ton of resources. There was an unguarded splinter colony between me and the Coids. It was a matter of researching fuel cells and drives before they did (putting factory and research lab on hold - that part srsly sucked) and sending an unarmed frigate there. Just a small part of the pre-building stockpile. This boon preempted me from needing to build a colony ship in this match, which is nice because demo-cre's can't build $#!%. Ubar's splinter colony was a large poor terran. A decent place to send people to make food, make research, or make people.

- Rich HW was useless. My population had to stay on science.

- The 50pop penalty was less bothersome than I expected, thanks to creative. This was an unexpected piece of synergy I had not been thinking about. Bio Tech puts creatives in a very strong economic position with biospheres, farms, soil enrichment, and cloning centers. Those four penalty points become immaterial, but the obvious risk is cramming in 480~960 RP without getting mauled by an AI battleship.​

As soon as I made contact with the two rivals, Humans and Silicoids, I began hemorrhaging techs. My agents were killed as soon as they were built. -10 defense. Each rival sent one spy against me. I gave up after building 4. I shouldn't even have built one; I could have gotten an extra Starbase, Cruiser, or pile of transports. I cannot remember which opponent got what, but I ended up fighting against my own:

1. Optronic computers
2. Robo Miners
3. Fusion Beams
4. Mass Drivers
5. Heavy Armor
6. Reinforced Hull
7. Warp Interdictors
8. ECM Jammers — HAHA fkn noobs I'm using beam ships
9. Aug Engines

...and somehow still won my battles, which means that Shield III AF Mass Driver ships are very viable, even if they aren't as strong as missile boats.

At pre-warp t80, the point where you might start seeing AI battleships, I was still trying to get a pre-build hammer stockpile for a couple cruisers. This was of course due to delaying the factories and labs to grab a splinter colony, and my repeated, failed attempts to protect my techs. Nonetheless, I had enough stockpile and tech to have non-mirv nuke boat designs on standby, for pinch-defense, as I finished battle pods and started on Shield III. I was prepared to send out bad missile boats; my goal here was to beat tracks down the Force Fields tech path but also not play stupidly (hoping that these two aren't mutually exclusive).

There were some fortuitous events. I think the RNG logic that governs spy actions also governs leaders, tech breakthroughs, and AI declarations. The big, nice thing was that the Coids declared on the Humans, not me. The humans were marginally closer, but I haven't known geography to stop a pissed-off AI. This happened at ca. t100. This gave me a lot of time to finish building ships.

Also, when techs were stolen, ship officers veritably beat my repulsive palace door down (had to recheck my traits in the info screen just to make sure things weren't amiss).

My fleet was a Cruiser and two Destroyers using the following designs. In a better world, another place, another time, I would have been able to reach supercomputers and positronic targeting, and/or I would have built two cruisers, but this is just what I managed.

I was most pleased to see that my shields did not crack. AF mass drivers dealt with enemy missile stacks well enough that a few of them could be spared for the attack while letting the shields absorb the rest. Battles were long and a lot of fun. I am used to missile boats settling matters for or against me in 3 turns. These were heroic battles of attrition, with boarding parties and all of it. Without racial military penalties, and with the perks of Force Field research, beam evasion and attack were both over 100, and ground troops and space marines could kick butt.

Maybe the enemy espionage backfired. Starbases might take Heavy Armor and ECM Jammers at the expense of some of their gunnery (I'm not sure). If this is the case it would actually have helped me, even in the case of Heavy Armor. My beam ships won wars of attrition with enemy starbases. Heavy armor just makes attrition take longer; it does not help break through shields. If it actually replaces ordinance on a starbase, then it could have turned into attrition what could have been a victory for the base. The Coids also built missile bases, but the missiles were easy fodder for AF mass drivers and, again, I won the wars of attrition with them.

The Humans built the saddest battleship I have ever seen. The leader they had on it detonated it after some long range mass driving. He took a good chunk of his own starbase with it.


-----

Based solely on this game (not much data to go on) Force Field research seems like a Creative's mere alternative to Chem. Definitely not a replacement. But it was a fun game...

 

[neilkaz]

I'm on my 2nd game using no missile ships and I am playing a stronger UniCre race using all 20 positive pts. UniCreProd+1LRHW and both games are easy romp and stomps since the race has more production than the AI's can deal with.

Early fighters as pointed out by others in a thread here can be quite effective and I managed to mortally wound a nearby AI one game with those until I upgraded to mass drivers.

I had problems with enemy spies both games, and considerably worse problems than I'd normally have if Uni and not Cre. It seems that by being Creative I have lots of techs they don't have and they send spies to try to steal them. Making 3 spies helps, but sometimes they get killed off. Neural Scanner helps and is the pre-req to Supercomps, but I couldn't always afford to go that route early when war was looming.

One issue is the size of the Battle Scanner until you've researched a few more and expensive Physics techs, which I am not researching yet since I am stressing Force Field techs to reduce Mass Drivers and to get AF and AP (if enemy doesn't have heavy armor). When I had Positronic Comps (+75 and comes with the tech that gets SuperComps for a big research increase) I didn't put B.S's on early ships and my Mass Drivers still usually hit. I used mostly Heavy Mass Drivers since no range dissipation so I could stay back and shoot. I had some PD to deal with missiles etc.

(more later)

 

[scratchthepitch]

I had problems with enemy spies both games, and considerably worse problems than I'd normally have if Uni and not Cre. It seems that by being Creative I have lots of techs they don't have and they send spies to try to steal them. Making 3 spies helps, but sometimes they get killed off. Neural Scanner helps and is the pre-req to Supercomps, but I couldn't always afford to go that route early when war was looming.

I'm pretty sure AI spying is rigged. When I've lost a tech to spies, I've been checking the AI's report screen both the turn of the steal and the one before, and most of the time it shows 0 spies in use against the player. So the program must roll some of these up as a random event to annoy a player with that doesn't involve the AI race setting spies against the player. The spy frame events are definitely not real spy framings, but just the text for a random roll against the player to liven things up a bit.

One issue is the size of the Battle Scanner until you've researched a few more and expensive Physics techs, which I am not researching yet since I am stressing Force Field techs to reduce Mass Drivers and to get AF and AP (if enemy doesn't have heavy armor). When I had Positronic Comps (+75 and comes with the tech that gets SuperComps for a big research increase) I didn't put B.S's on early ships and my Mass Drivers still usually hit. I used mostly Heavy Mass Drivers since no range dissipation so I could stay back and shoot. I had some PD to deal with missiles etc.

Years ago (with the stock game ) I tried leaving off battle scanners and discovered it made a big difference. Discovered the same thing with the rangefinder unit. So I went back to them. Against ships with good beam defense figures, I have found them both a must.

 

[vmxa]

Yes the spy routine sucks. I have posted in the past of having the entire galaxy down to a size 2 or size 1 AI. I had all techs and 62 or 64 spies, forget which number. The AI still managed to steal a tech.

 

[neilkaz]

I played about 20 games as UniCreSub and it is a very strong race and fun to play with the large populations you can have.

In most games I'd try to colonize two or three other systems quickly, depending upon proximity and aggression levels of neighbors and how many planets there were in those systems. As there basically are no bad planets when you're subterranean, I'd soon have a large population.

Most games I wanted to rather quickly research to Advanced Bio so I can get soil enrichment and solve any food issues. Of course, farms and biospheres can be used where needed and if there's room for growth, cloning centers. Then assuming I was a peace and expecting to remain at peace I could work towards Positronics. (Hint: make a couple war ships anyhow so AI's don't think you're defenseless and attack).

The pre-req to Positronics gives you Neural Scanners to help your defensive spies (you'll need several agents). Positronics gives you Supercomps and they are a huge boost to research. Every game that I managed to build supercomps early on on several big planets was very dominant as I could easily cruise thru researching all sorts of tech branches to benefit creatives. Additionally, Pos Comps meant that I almost always had ship initiative and if using beams could hit.

Sometimes your not alone or are threatened and then have to get some techs for war rather than Supercomps and also make some more ships and fight.

The only game I suffered somewhat in was when Psilons attacked me early on (I destroyed their fleet after a while and they lacked production to come back with much of a threat), and while the war was ongoing an amoeba attacked my home system and my HW, the only good farming planet, was turned toxic and my empire was in severe famine conditions. I had to building housing on most worlds to slow down the rate of population loss while researching terraforming (to get some planets close to terran for farming) and subterranean farms to feed everyone. After about 40 more turns I'd stabilized and then rolled over the Psilons.

I usually used early MIRV Nuke and Merc missiles, but the Mass Driver route proved to be very viable and I now think is clearly more viable for Cre than for most other races. Still if I had to win a game using this race to save my life, I'd just beeline for Zort armor and the two nice econ techs that Cre get with it and MIRV Mercs.

Things that make the Mass Driver route a good option for Cre are as follows.

1) you get Trit armor along with Deut cells so your ships can survive better.

2) you get Heavy armor along with the must have factory tech. I'd often use heavy armor on beam ships since I am planning on sticking around for several turns to survive the battle rather than just shoot and scoot.

3) you can get Fusion drive without having to forgo Aug Engines so there's less rush to get Ion Drive.

4) you get Tachyon Comm along with Battle scanner so you have fewer CP issues and can make smallish beam ships from several planets and get a quick effective fleet and noting smaller ships are more difficult for beams to hit and naturally move faster in battle.

5) You don't have to forgo Radiation Shield to get Class 3 shields so now you can soon Terraform rad. planets.

6) A biggie is not having to forgo the +50 or +75 attack computers.

Ships with Trit Armor, Reinforced Hull, Class 3 shields and Mass Drivers with some good mods like AF and maybe AP are quite effective and not easy to kill. Add in Heavy Armor, or Aug Engines or Inertial Stabilizer as you see fit.

However, I found that the quick research trip to MIRV Mercs was probably still stronger and the pollution control buildings along the way turn great planets into production powerhouses.

UniCreSub should be an easy but hopefully fun win on Impossible for most experienced players here.

 

[scratchthepitch]

High production, high population and creative - what could go wrong?

An irony in the game you described where you had to deal with Psilons and a wandering monster is that with creative beam ships probably worked well against Psilons, while missile or interceptor armed ships would probably work better against the monster.