[MoO] Moo2 spy question

[Dukinson]

I've done quite a bit of research on the dynamic of spying but I couldn't find this anywhere. Spying in MOO2 is a measure of technology and, I could be wrong on this second part, population. If that second part is true, does anyone know if androids contribute to your spy networks effectiveness as per normal population?

 

[vmxa]

Spying is so broken in Moo2, it should be removed. I have seen a a single planet empire, pop 1 steal from an all techs done creative that has all planets and 64 defensive spies.

I was sitting on the planet, while I gathered all the ships to attack the Anties. Anyway I would think that the two factors of import are, computer techs and spy trait/techs.

 

[Dukinson]

I've had techs stolen from me in similar circumstance but never happened if I had sufficient defense the whole game. If it dropped and their spies were able to set up networks, they could potentially finish the job with even a single spy after I had thrown up massive defenses. This is rare however, and vast majority of incidents my defenses will break down their networks even if they've gotten a foothold. I don't think it's broken so much as it's mysterious. There's a lot I don't understand about it. Also, I don't think computer tech is a factor in Moo2. I believe that was Moo1, can anyone chime in here and confirm that? I haven't played one since I was a teenager.

 

[Dukinson]

You know, there's another odd thing I noticed about androids. When I add an android to housing, my population growth increases. But how is that? What is that android doing...? I think it goes something like this:

"Hey honey, this is our new android Clarissa... she'll be joining us tonight."

 

[Rocco.40]

the androids are building nice new homes with nurseries.

 

[Rocco.40]

@vmxa. Spying was done much more elegantly in MOO1 and I so much wished they had kept (much of the) the MOO1 mechanics for MOO2.

 

[vmxa]

I have never found spying to be a good feature in any game. It always leads to easy steals and I really appreciated Aaron for giving us the ability to disable spying in SE4. I pestered him, until he added.

Some games were so whacked that you could steal a planet (Pax Imperium). If spying has to be in a game, it should be very expensive and hard to pull off.

 

[Dukinson]

the androids are building nice new homes with nurseries.

Nope, it's definitely sex-bots. Naughty androids dressed up in french maid outfits, catholic school girl outfits, nurse outfi... you get the idea.

 

[Dukinson]

So no one knows the exact dynamics of spying in this game? And more importantly, do androids function as population in terms of increasing your spy potential. If they do not, this is very important and may make androids an unworthy production item.

 

[Rocco.40]

[should have continued here]

Some info on spying .. it is not much:
moo2mod.blogspot.nl/spying-bonuses

And in this link, somewhere in the middle of the thread, post by Overlord2:
spheriumnorth.com/orion-forum/spying and stuff

I saw that graph too. I have to say, I'm a bit disappointed that spying isn't more complicated. Sometimes I do wonder if there is something more to it though.

Well there is more to it, we just haven't figured it out yet.
- How is a tech chosen?
- How is a building chosen?
- Mechanic of chance for success is quite clear but not 100% clear yet.
> The number of available techs to steal might have an influence on the outcome.
> It seems that high quality techs are stolen sooner that the lesser techs.

Let me see if I have this straight. So this Spying % and Agent % is not actually a percentage of anything? That is what confused the hell out of me, how I can be losing so often with 4 spies to 1 if I'm suffering only a, say, 12% decrease in effectiveness.

So if I have "-12%" and 4 spies, this just means I have -12+8 = -4 defensive score?

And if some race has +20 Spying and 1 spy, they have 22 offensive score and will steal a tech if their roll(0-100)+22 > my roll(0-100)-4+60, which on average will be once in 5 turns. If I build a total of 10 spies, that puts me at roll(0-100)+22 > roll(0-100)+3+60, which merely reduces the chance from 1 in 5 to 1 in 6...

This is why 1 enemy spy can be very succesful.
Also, to get 'on equal terms' with Darloks 1 spy @22 when you have the -12 penalty, you need to bridge 34 bonus points with your spies, which is 48 spies in classic or 47 in ice.

From looking at the code, I have some doubts on the +60 number.
There are 3 numbers in that code for tech stealing which are +60,+80 and +90
For Sabotage (seperate code) there is only +70 and +90
Still need to find some time to test more with these numbers.

 

[Markus Ramikin]

Unattributed quote alert!

I am so playing Feudal with spying some time soon.

Dukinson: pretty sure the effect of population was a Moo1 thing.

 

[Dukinson]

Unattributed quote alert!

I am so playing Feudal with spying some time soon.

Dukinson: pretty sure the effect of population was a Moo1 thing.

Ya I think I was mixing the two up.

 

[Harv]

MOO1 Spying - The AI does not seem to know how to use it effectively. I am currently playing a Klackon game and the Darloks next to me should be robbing me blind. Occasionally (once so far) I see a factory or missile base blow up.

MOO2 Spying - Agree with VXMA. Kind of broken. One enemy spy can do damage. It also suffers from preserved random seed. So something like this happens: