More beliefs mod.

Jarula · Jul 4, 2019

Sick and tired of playing 43 civs and running out of beliefs Joe's reintroduction of an old mod adds a bunch of interesting new pantheons founders followers enhancers reformations... INCLUDING NEW religious buildings

Chapterhouse
Church something or another
Orphanage
Mission
Food Distribution

Its coming very soon. It will likely not be balanced any advice to balance would be appreciated but not particularly meant to be balanced as much as fun.

Literally one enhsncer belief Jihad +5% culture at peace and faith from kills...

Including Chosen people pantheon that adds a whole bunch of advantages and disadvantages

Moi Magnus · Jul 5, 2019

If you don't already know it, you might be interested by this mod https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/bare-necessities.645157/, which add 5 follower belief (all religious buildings, I think) and 1 reformation belief.

Base VP has 13 religion icons, 9 founder, 16 follower, 9 enhancer, 10 reformation.
With Bare necessities, it is 13 religion icons, 9 founder, 21 follower, 9 enhancer, 11 reformation.

Jarula · Jul 5, 2019

Yap designed to work with bare necessities... Like alongside. Goal is for it to work good for ynaemp games.../huge maps... When people play the 43 civ games and run out of pantheons...

Jarula · Jul 5, 2019

The balancing though is the problem... And maybe some more ideas for clever beliefs.

Chosen people for example pantheon grain religion... +50% towards great prophets -20% distance -20% spread rate. +20% missionary cost etc...

(Basically I tried to design funky pantheons) and beliefs followers that do what pantheons do etc... like mix ups.

For example trugdei +2 faith +2 culture +1 tourism happiness to all religious buildings no wonder associated etc... Basically beliefs that try to mix things up (with the civs I am working on its the same thing adapted so that a bit op but with downsides like a Rome with for 3/4 uniques with 7 unique wonders 2 UB and 2 UU (the wonders and buildings all cause increases to global unhappiness and class yield changes...)

Not entirely designed to be balanced more so fun interesting so that in games with the AI for example you can add a bit of Zest.

Balancing advice once I post the mod as well as details would be greatly appreciated.

Jarula · Jul 5, 2019

Any advice on nerfing certain ones is appreciated trying to have them balanced in terms of ability for their class BUT NOT BALANCED IN TERMS OF WHAT THEY DO (like pantheons that act like an enhancer but are balanced in terms of the hollistic strength of a pantheon meaning for example:
Chosen People (Pantheon)
Prophets earned 50% Faster Spread distance -50% -25% Spread Speed +3F for each Pantheon Small amount of Faith per kills +10% near enemy Cities Spreads 3x Faster to City States Missionaries Cost 30% More
For a Pantheon is Bizarre... (still needs nerfing to an extent) but a pantheon that almost garuntees a religion but ALSO garuntees that religion will have an insanely hard time spreading... Basically choosing this belief means you will basically ONLY be using prophets... BUT by the time other people get their religions up and running your will be fading away... meaning if you choose this one you are better off in the short term but in the long term it wont be so swell in terms of your religion... the increase in the missionary cost and the increase and the MASSIVE decrease in Spread Distance and Spread Speed mean literally you will have a hard time by the medieval era keeping your holy city following your own religion.

Basically I kind of want beliefs like that bizarre type beliefs that do bizarre things that basically make the game fun and interesting by kind of weirding out the religion game
All beliefs can make GREAT combos with various civs and beliefs but I do kind of want it to be that way I just want the beliefs themselves to become a little more curbed in terms of yields to where religious beliefs can accent and the choice of religions in the early game can greatly impact how you interact with other players and how they interact with you... IE helping make the religion component of the game as fun and exciting albeit random as humanely possible. LIke I want that religion or I DON'T WANT THAT RELIGION type thing... Like for example Arabia with 3/4 uniques could chose chosen people to spam missionaries BUUUT the -distance and -spread rate would mean that literally they would constantly have to devote their almost entire faith production towards the spamming of missionaries... becoming a hugely uphill battle in later eras... or you could go Truga Dei and choose only religious buildings but then you don't recieve very much of a benefit from being a founder other than the benifits off those religious buildings... giving you absolutely 0 incentive to spread the religion... but the increase in the spread distance and spread strength means it becomes a tactical move in order to actually kind of block other players trying to spread their religion through generating a f-load of religious pressure... so basically with that one with a civ like the Vatican you have a LOT of religious buildings and you play the religion game based off of pressure rather than missionaries... Or you could use Chosen people with the enhancer that makes great prophets cost 50% less so hollistically then thats -70% utilizing a pantheon and a enhancer but then you still have that problem with the -50% spread distance and -25% pressure meaning that those holy sites you are trying to spam are going to lose their effectiveness as the massive amount of reduction in both pressure and distance means that you are going to on the theolical side fizzle out. Those great prophets are basically going to be needed to keep your religion alive...

So for example if I was chosing one I would go Son of Heaven, Truga Dei, orphanages, food centers, and Orthodoxy to basically drive out all other religions focusing on culture faith generation internally... (but downside no extra votes...) by the end game Religion is a minor point in comparison to military size science/ideologies and policies the help I need is with nerfing yields or adding negatives to the various pantheons followers etc... so that they balance... I.E. they interact so that the AI and player has a greater degree of variety and change in strategy from beginning game to midgame to endgame. (plus the goal of more faith meaning more actual adjustments in the game between the cities getting converted etc... disagreements with players over religions etc...)

So Far I have
Deism (Pantheon)
1Fd1G1P1F per 2 Pantheons +1C from Monuments

Goddess Of Knowledge (Pantheon)
+3S from Palace +1S from Shrine +1F from Grove +1F per 15S

Goddess of Wealth (Pantheon)
+3G From Palace +1G from Shrine +1F from Market +1F per 14G

Heavenly Blessings (Pantheon)
+3G from Pastures +1F from Fish +2F from silk and dye

Good Shepard (Pantheon)
+1F from pastures
+2F from Sheep
-5% missionary cost
+25% missionary strength
-10% prophet cost

People of the Horse
+1 faith from pastures
+1FC from Horses
+100% horses
Unique promotion Horse People
For mounted units
+25% attack
Ignores ZOC

Shamanism (Pantheon)
+1FdCG+2F from Camps +1F from Deer +2F from Fur

Son of Heaven (Pantheon)
+1F from world Wonders +1FC from Shrines +1FC from Villiages +1F per 15 Followers

Vision Quest (Pantheon)
+1F From Monuments +10F SWA when Borders Expand

Weapons of the Gods (Pantheon)
+1F From Barracks and Armory +2P from Palace +1FC from Iron

Gods of Ice and Winter (Pantheon)
+1FdF From Snow Tiles +1F From Tundra Tiles

God is Love (Founder)
+5 Happiness +10% Culture if at Peace

Jihad (Enhancer)
+5% Culture at Peace and Faith From Kills

Awe of God (Follower)
+5F +50% Faith From Natural Wonders

Ceremonial Law (Follower)
+1% Fd each Follower max 15%

Church Control (Follower)
+4F from Banks Public Schools
+3F from Courthouses

Church Influence (Follower)
Use Faith To purchase Local Church Offices

Church Tax (Follower)
+1%G for each Follower Max 15%

Creation Story (Pantheon)
+2F+1G from Jungle +1FG From Forest

Crusader Training (Follower)
Use Faith to Purchase Crusader Training Hall

Faith Preaching (Follower)
+2F +1G in cities with a pop of 4+

Friends of the Poor (Follower)
Use Faith to purchase Food Centers

Foundation of Reason (Follower)
+2S for each Cow and Sheep +1S for Fish

Gods Workers (Follower)
Use Faith to purchase Mission Sites

The Great Commission (Follower)
+2 Faith in cities with a Trade Route +2F from Harbors Lighthouses and Caranvasaries

Holy Annihilation (Follower)
Faith from battle

Holly Message (Follower)
Broadcast Towers and Stadiums provide 7F 1F for 8 Followers

Instructions of Wisdom (Follower)
Shrines and Libraries provide +1SF
Temples provide +2SF
Holy Sites +1S

Just God (Follower)
Courthouses +1P and 4Happiness

Lords Army (Follower)
Barracks Orders Crusader Halls and Armories provide +1FCP Military Acadamies +2FCP

Mind is God (Follower)
Temples and Research Labs provide +1S Library and Public School +2F +1S for 5 research per turn.

Moral Obligation (Follower)
Use Faith to purchase Orphanages

Mythical Literature (Follower)
Libraries provide +4F
+20F SWA when a Great Writer is expended

Naturalist Faith (Follower)
+5 S and +50%S from natural wonders

Local Church Offices
+1F
May Build Local Church Offices with Faith
+10% Pressure
+1% Gold
+5G +10F SWA on Tech Research
+10% Pressure

Mission Sites
May Build Mission Sites With Faith
+1FFdP
+20% Pressure
+5PF from Building Construction
-10% Poverty
-10% Minority unhappiness
+20% Pressure

Food Centers
Purchased with Faith
+1C +2F
Gairaries in city Provide +1F1G +2Fd
+1Fd to each other Food Center
-40% Poverty
+10% Pressure
-5% Gold in City

Crusader Hall (reformation)
Purchased with Faith
+1C
+2 Unit supply
+50% unit supply in city
+60% minority unhappiness
Barracks and Armory in City provide +1FC
Gun Melee and Mounted Trained in City Get Faith Promotion
+20% Outside Friendly Lands +10% Defense 1 Free Pillage move
+10% Pressure

Orphanages
Purchased with Faith
+3F +2Fd
-20% Poverty
-5% illiteracy
-10% Minority
20 FdCF SWA on population Growth
+10% Pressure

Sacred Statues (Pantheon)
Purchased with Faith
+1CF
+3P SWA upon Construction
+5GA points +2C +3P From Policy Unlock
+5% Pressure

Graveyards (enhancer)
Purchased with Faith
+1CF to all other Graveyards
+5% Pressure
-20% Minority Religion unhappiness

Sacred Arenas (Pantheon)
Purchased with Faith
+3 GA points
+5% CFG in City during Golden Ages
-10% Boredom
+5% Pressure
-5% Food in City

Pyramid of the Gods (Pantheon)
Purchased with Faith
+1FCS
+5C SWA from Tech
+5F SWA from Policy Adopt
+10% Pressure

Code's of our Forefathers (Pantheon)
Purchased with Faith
+1C
-2% Policy Cost
+5% Pressure

Mighty Obelisk (Pantheon)
Purchased with Faith
+1F
+1PF to Pastures
Grants Protean Altar Promotion +10% Outside of Friendly Lands +20% Attack

Sacred Icons (Pantheon)
Purchased with Faith
+1FC
+20F +30G +40GAP SWA upon construction

Pastoral Training (Follower)
Univiersities provide +4F
+20% Missionary Conversion strength and -5% Missionary Cost

Prosperity Gospel (Follower)
Temples +2G +1F per 6GPT +1C per 14GPT

Reincarnation (Follower)
-1Fd from Cow Deer Sheep Bison
+3F From Cow Deer Sheep Bison
+1C From Cow

Religious Insight (Follower)
National college provides +5FS +1FS From Specialists

Religious Relics (Follower)
Museums and Hermitage Provide +7CF
+2F from Great Works

Servant God (Follower)
Hospitals Granaries Aqueducts +1CF +2P

Theistic Realism (Follower)
+3F +1S for Each Stone Resource
+1F per 8 Faith

Built by God (Follower)
World wonders provide +1T

One True Faith (Enhancer)
Religion Spreads to Cities 20% Further away 25% Faster missionaries Inquistors cost 10% less Prophets 50% Stronger +1F for each pantheon +1C for each 4 Pantheons

Pax et Truega Dei (Founder)
+2FC and +1T from all religious Buildings
Spread distance +10%
Spread Strength +30%

To Defends Gods Word (Reformation)
May purchase Walls Castles arsenals and Military Bases with Faith they provide +1F Military Bases +3F

To Spread Gods Word (Reformation)
May build Barracks armories Military Academies with Faith they provide +1P Miltiary Acadamies +4F

Religious Enforcement (Reformation)
May build Constabularies Police Stations with Faith they Provide +2F +1H

Chosen People (Pantheon)
Prophets earned 50% Faster Spread distance -50% -25% Spread Speed +3F for each Pantheon Small amount of Faith per kills +10% near enemy Cities Spreads 3x Faster to City States Missionaries Cost 30% More

Going to half most of the followers.
Pastoral add reduce missionary and Inquisitor cost reduce faith

Orphanages and food centers need changes... Drop the market add to food center class change to itself of +1 food
Add -1% gold to city for food center.

Nerf pantheons Goddesses... Less gold/science...
Nerf creation story. To a yield of simply +1C jungle and 1GA forest.
Add Faith to world wonders for theistic realism.
Make crusader training halls better and reformation
Weaken Truga dei give it ability to chose reformation.

Moi Magnus · Jul 7, 2019

Jarula said:
Basically I kind of want beliefs like that bizarre type beliefs that do bizarre things that basically make the game fun and interesting by kind of weirding out the religion game
All beliefs can make GREAT combos with various civs and beliefs but I do kind of want it to be that way I just want the beliefs themselves to become a little more curbed in terms of yields to where religious beliefs can accent and the choice of religions in the early game can greatly impact how you interact with other players and how they interact with you... IE helping make the religion component of the game as fun and exciting albeit random as humanely possible. LIke I want that religion or I DON'T WANT THAT RELIGION type thing...

A little warning here:

Weird effect need additional coding to do. From what I've heard, the way religious belief works is kind of a mess (each type of belief has its own way of being coded), so some stuff cannot be done, some stuff can only be done for some belief types, while other are very difficult to code. Example of simple things that are not possible for pantheon: +1on mines and +1 on wheats. If create this pantheon, the result will be "+1 +1 on mines and on wheats" because the two effects will be merged.
AI belief choice is random. This is not totally true, but AI belief choice is the only part of VP where the AI does not really try to be clever.
The AI will always try to spread their current state religion, even if that's counterproductive. Religions are "black boxes" for them. The only point of the game where the AI care about the effect of beliefs is when choosing which belief they adopt for their religion.

I didn't read yet your list of belief. By the way, you can find here the code for all the symbols: https://forums.civfanatics.com/help/smilies. It help readers when there are symbols instead of letters.

Jarula · Jul 7, 2019

Oh the mines and wheats of course you can using .SQL it's different resources. They are under different parts of code for example the stuff for total pantheons or additional.

The AI belief choice is somewhat random... For example even with randomizer on the Indian AI consistently chose one of 2 pantheons even when I added more... Its not completely random.

Jarula · Jul 7, 2019

C stands for culture F for faith P for production Fd Food T tourism GA golden age G gold

Moi Magnus · Jul 7, 2019

Jarula said:
The AI belief choice is somewhat random... For example even with randomizer on the Indian AI consistently chose one of 2 pantheons even when I added more... Its not completely random.

Ok, I should not have said random. It is selecting it comparing some valuations. But those valuations are very short term analysis (which resources do the civ has, which yield they would like to have, are they aggressive or not, ...). Which mean, they will be pretty bad at comparing belief that have different goals (ensuring to found vs raw bonuses).

Moi Magnus · Jul 7, 2019

Jarula said:
Oh the mines and wheats of course you can using .SQL it's different resources. They are under different parts of code for example the stuff for total pantheons or additional.

You're probably right. I will search on Github what was the similar example which didn't work.

pineappledan · Jul 7, 2019

I agree that something should be done for big map users so they can have more religions. This has been a major complaint of the base mod. You can mostly ignore
Imo the beliefs need to follow the same naming scheme as the existing beliefs.

pantheons need to be "God/Goddess of X" with only a few exceptions
Founder beliefs need to be something vague and attributable to many existing belief systems (Transcendence, theocracy, ceremonial burials, etc.)
Followers, Enhancers, and Reformation beliefs can be more specific

I also don't think you need to have so many beliefs. I think you should set a number for how many players you want to be able to found on even the largest of maps, and filter down to only your favourites. It will be easier to balance you can get a more polished product if you limit your scope.

Right now you can have up to 8 religions in 1 game. because there are:
9 founders
16 followers (divided by 2 = 8)
9 enhancers
10 reformation

If you want to increase that to 12 religions total, the minimum you need is:
+3 founders
+8 followers
+3 enhancers
+2 reformation

That might be a good starting point for at least the default 22 max civs.

Here are some of my own ideas for beliefs that I think would work well:

Spoiler Pantheons :

Spoiler Founder :

Spoiler Followers :

Spoiler Enhancers :

Spoiler Reformation :

And then I would also see if enginseer’s would be interested in combining his belief buildings mod with this one.

My own preferred focus is less emphasis on Christianity for beliefs, novel mechanics, and reducing overlap with existing stuff

Jarula · Jul 8, 2019

Pineapple high five let's finish this one together.

Main aim is 43 civs only 22 pantheons.

More beliefs equals more variety in games... (I'm a crappy coder but this one I think could be one a lot of people would use... I don't know how to use .lua) if you want I could send you what I have and we can add yours.... I do think there should be more interesting ones like dont remember if you remember the Cthulhu themed one ctulu worship. It meant in games where someone chose it if they got it up your religion was going to have a hard time staying up unless you eradicated it...

Stuff like that adds tension surprise variety to games.

Like graveyards as a enhancer or crusader hall as a reformation... Adds some much needed spice and pizzazz.

Like if you want you can join me on the Barbarossa and Romulus (only problem is the unique unit praetor has problems) projects we could make some awesome fun civs. Again my problems are compiling and . LUA

pineappledan · Jul 8, 2019

Jarula said:
Pineapple high five let's finish this one together.

I think you and I have very different visions for how new beliefs should be added. You want many more, often overlapping beliefs, while I would only be interested in increasing the number of possible religions by 2-4.

I also think that the additions I would want to see to the beliefs would require changes to the dll, so my suggestions really have no teeth unless someone like G is open to adding more beliefs.

Jarula said:
Main aim is 43 civs only 22 pantheons.

See, with custom civs etc., this doesn't seem like a priority to me. I would be all for adding a few extra pantheons to fill some perceived playstyle gaps, but doubling the total number of pantheons would be overwhelming for players. I have a hard enough time finding the belief that I want from the current list of 22.

Jarula said:
Like if you want you can join me on the Barbarossa and Romulus (only problem is the unique unit praetor has problems) projects we could make some awesome fun civs. Again my problems are compiling and . LUA

I don't have much interest in that. Sorry. Your idea for the Rome civ sounds interesting, but I still have a lot on my plate with my own mods and don't have much time/interest in taking something like this on. Sorry.

Jarula · Jul 9, 2019

The Rome civ basically works aside from 1 UU...

The problem is for a weird reason I can't get the great diplomat unit art to load for it...

Plus the unique promotions aren't working...

Its going to need some balancing to iron out kinks but holistically it looks VERY fun... If you play ynaemp it sounds more fun.

Cat-du-fromage · Jul 9, 2019

pineappledan said:
I also think that the additions I would want to see to the beliefs would require changes to the dll, so my suggestions really have no teeth unless someone like G is open to adding more beliefs.

True for founder Belief, i tried to make a mod in order to have 10 religions available and i found myself very limited when it was about Founder Belief, Because the SQL Tables are very limited for this type. And i don't find a way to make a belief works only for the founder with LUA.

Jarula · Jul 10, 2019

Actually it's not hard.

Belief YADA YADA flying spaghetti monster sauce founder 1

Then just code same as any other...

Jarula · Jul 11, 2019

Do founder and reformation is only for founding civ right?

CrazyG · Jul 11, 2019

Jarula said:
Do founder and reformation is only for founding civ right?

All civs get benefits of reformation beliefs

pineappledan · Jul 12, 2019

An idea for another founder belief, instead of a Jihad belief, which is a bit on the nose.

Holy War (founder)
- small amount of :c5faith:

Faith and

GAP on conquering a City, scaling with population and Era
- Unlocks unique units that can be purchased with Faith
- Unlocks House of God Reformation Wonder

+2

, +2

, +2

+5

production to all Holy Sites

Spoiler “Ghazi Unit Line” :

Hero Worship Rework
- Gain :c5faith:

Faith,

Culture,

Gold, and

Science when a :c5capital:

Great General/Admiral is born.
- Unlocks Great Altar

+5

faith
+15% :c5production:

unit production
+3 :c5faith:

Faith to Citadels
+3 :c5gold:

Gold to Holy Sites

Jarula · Jul 13, 2019

Well I would need some help to code some of those...

More beliefs mod.

King

Emperor

King

King

King

Emperor

King

King

Emperor

Emperor

Deity

King

Deity

King

Warlord

King

King

Deity

Deity

King

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