More discrimination from Israel: but this time it's not towards Palestinians

[.Shane.]

I never told that. Jews steal cars too. I just wanted to say that young bedouins in Negev are real professionals in that field. Why everybody takes that as some racist move. Maybe I wrote something wrong in english?

Because, from, speaking personally, my perspective, it does sound racist. As if you're saying Bedouins are inherently car thieves. In the US, blacks are more likely to be in jail, per capita. But this is not due to the fact that they're black. Its due to socio-economics and the fact that more blacks come from socio-economic demographics that lead to crime.

So, if you wanted to make progress, you'd look at why Bedouins steal cars in such great numbers. I'd wager its linked to a lower status in society and a worse lot, economically.

Anyway....

 

[Leha]

Because, from, speaking personally, my perspective, it does sound racist. As if you're saying Bedouins are inherently car thieves. In the US, blacks are more likely to be in jail, per capita. But this is not due to the fact that they're black. Its due to socio-economics and the fact that more blacks come from socio-economic demographics that lead to crime..

I never posted beduins are known only as car-burglars. If someone understood it THAT way, I want to clarify: I didn't mean it that way. Israel is the country most of you apparently know very little. Israelis call me Russian, because I come from Russia. I call immigrants from marocco - marrocans. And noone gets offended. Because almost everyone is immigrant. Russians are known for their vodka-skills. Marrocans are known for their explosive temperament and knife-wielding. Iraqis are known for their greediness. Beduins are known for their first-class burglar skills. That's all.

So, if you wanted to make progress, you'd look at why Bedouins steal cars in such great numbers. I'd wager its linked to a lower status in society and a worse lot, economically.

Anyway....

You know.....do you remember recent riots in France? My personal opinion: if person wants to,really wants to live better, then in countries like France and Israel he shouldn't have any problem. How am I different from bedouin?

 

[ainwood]

I never posted beduins are known only as car-burglars. If someone understood it THAT way, I want to clarify: I didn't mean it that way. Israel is the country most of you apparently know very little. Israelis call me Russian, because I come from Russia. I call immigrants from marocco - marrocans. And noone gets offended. Because almost everyone is immigrant. Russians are known for their vodka-skills. Marrocans are known for their explosive temperament and knife-wielding. Iraqis are known for their greediness. Beduins are known for their first-class burglar skills. That's all.

Moderator Action: For future reference, pPlease don't post such sweeping negative stereotypes - it is considered bashing.

 

[CruddyLeper]

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Society_&_Culture/Bedouin.html

Take that racist thingy out.

I don't think so.

Israel’s attitude towards its Bedouin citizens has always been positive.

So positive that 3/4 of them have fled their traditional roaming space.

*

the transition from a traditional, conservative society which only a generation ago was nomadic, entails relinquishing values, customs and a traditional economy;
*


the Bedouin have to cope with the process of urbanization – the very antithesis of their nomadic tradition – and the attending poverty and crime rate;
*

If you take a Bedu from the desert, deny them rights to roam... they aren't Bedu.

Sounds rather like Nazi propaganda about the need for Jews to rationalise themselves to "resettlement in the east" ie termination of them as a race.

the Bedouin to some extent fail to distinguish between objective difficulties and those connected with their changing sub-culture and thus feel an exaggerated sense of deprivation.

Oh right. It's the Bedu's fault, they shouldn't feel so bad that they are forced to change their ways by strangers to their land.

Garbage. Pure and simple.

by Dr. Yosef Ben-David

Sure, real objective source.

 

[Leha]

I don't think so.

As you wish

So positive that 3/4 of them have fled their traditional roaming space.

Many of them fled when Israel was attacked in 1948

If you take a Bedu from the desert, deny them rights to roam... they aren't Bedu.

As I said before - bring back indians, maoris and other native tribes to their roaming places then.

Sounds rather like Nazi propaganda about the need for Jews to rationalise themselves to "resettlement in the east" ie termination of them as a race.

It's just you see it that way.

Oh right. It's the Bedu's fault, they shouldn't feel so bad that they are forced to change their ways by strangers to their land.

Garbage. Pure and simple.

See above.

 

[Tenochtitlan]

Marrocans are known for their explosive temperament and knife-wielding. Iraqis are known for their greediness. Beduins are known for their first-class burglar skills. That's all.

Stereotyping is offensive. It is based on nothing but bias and misinformation. I suggest you not use stereotypes to strengthen your argument.

Moderator Action: When a moderator has warned someone for something, please don't carry on discussing it.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[CruddyLeper]

As you wish



Many of them fled when Israel was attacked in 1948

Then why didn't they go back?

As I said before - bring back indians, maoris and other native tribes to their roaming places then.

Gotcha. "Everybody else has done it so it must be OK".

Everybody use to practise incest and ritual human sacrifice. This is what is called progress, ie, standards of behaviour change.

It's just you see it that way.

I've seen more volume of nonsense written to justify Israel's right to terrorise non-Jews than Goebbels ever dreamed of.

You can't help it Leha. You've been conditioned to accept the reality of your situation. And unpleasant as it may seem to you, a helluva lot of non-Jewish Israeli citizens feel like they do not have same rights as Jewish Israeli citizens. See above. This is for racist reasons.

Where I in your situation or you in mine, I doubt we'd have different views. Perspective changes things.

 

[Leha]

Stereotyping is offensive. It is based on nothing but bias and misinformation. I suggest you not use stereotypes to strengthen your argument.

You forgot something. All people above are JEWS. From all over the world. (exept bedouins of course)

 

[CruddyLeper]

But Jews can't be racist?

Why not? Black people certainly can be racist - look at Mugabe in Zimbabwe.

Why not Jews?

EDIT: Incidentally, on a private note, before you right me off as an anti-semitic Goyim... I actually pray for peace for Israel every day.

It's not very constructive but I'd like to think my heart is in the right place.

"I pray for Israel, that it may go from being a racist, apartheid state, to a Jewish homeland where the rights of all people, regardless of race or religion, are respected and protected, and is at peace."

Is that so bad? I never actually asked an Israeli what they thought of that.

 

[Leha]

Then why didn't they go back?

Ask them.

Gotcha. "Everybody else has done it so it must be OK".

Everybody use to practise incest and ritual human sacrifice. This is what is called progress, ie, standards of behaviour change..

Excuse me? I don't post here avery two hours "Englishmen still discriminate indians" "Hands off of maori" "Spanish genocide in South America". NOOO. It is only when Israel is truyng to bring some infrastructure and trees into waterless desert people start getting extremely worried about bedouins. You called article Israeli propaganda. What right do you have to do so? Have you seen arab and bedouin women coming to state-of-the-art hospitals for almost free payment? No. I've seen. I see it every day. I see bedouins capable to finance 3-4 wives easily. They are doing pretty good.

I've seen more volume of nonsense written to justify Israel's right to terrorise non-Jews than Goebbels ever dreamed of.

You can't help it Leha. You've been conditioned to accept the reality of your situation. And unpleasant as it may seem to you, a helluva lot of non-Jewish Israeli citizens feel like they do not have same rights as Jewish Israeli citizens. See above. This is for racist reasons..

As I said before, you have no arguments, only liberal propaganda. You have to accept it. The only arguments you can use - unsupported accusations of Israel of racism and calling any arguments of Israelis - propaganda.

Where I in your situation or you in mine, I doubt we'd have different views. Perspective changes things.

Unlike you, I had a chance to change perspective. For 21 years I was listening to similar anti-israeli BS in USSR.

 

[Leha]

But Jews can't be racist?

Why not? Black people certainly can be racist - look at Mugabe in Zimbabwe.

Why not Jews?

EDIT: Incidentally, on a private note, before you right me off as an anti-semitic Goyim... I actually pray for peace for Israel every day.

It's not very constructive but I'd like to think my heart is in the right place.

"I pray for Israel, that it may go from being a racist, apartheid state, to a Jewish homeland where the rights of all people, regardless of race or religion, are respected and protected, and is at peace."

Is that so bad? I never actually asked an Israeli what they thought of that.

You missed my whole point. Why? I think because you are so blinded by idea of "racist Israel", that you miss simple things.
My previous post was describing how we, Israelis, identify ourselves as IMMIGRANTS. You are so lost in your political correctness.

 

[CruddyLeper]

So that gives you the right to treat everybody else as less than yourselves?

If that isn't racism then what is?

 

[Leha]

So that gives you the right to treat everybody else as less than yourselves?

If that isn't racism then what is?

And this is related to...? (where was I talking about my right to treat others less than myself?)

 

[CruddyLeper]

By regarding yourselves as "immigrants" and having different sets of rules as a result.

How many artillery and mortar rounds do the IDF fire into Jewish homes? Zero.

 

[Leha]

By regarding yourselves as "immigrants" and having different sets of rules as a result..

Didn't understand that. So I have no right to preserve my russian mentality?

How many artillery and mortar rounds do the IDF fire into Jewish homes? Zero.

Gotcha. How do you manage to drag THIS into bedouin thread? How?
This is another story. This is OT. Maybe you'll tell me into who's homes, how many and why fires IDF artillery and mortar rounds?

 

[Winterfell]

I think there is a huge misunderstanding here. I will try to make thing bright:
Leha, by saying in israel we call each other morrocan, russian or romanian and use stereotpyes, is not a racist. It is just the way people talk here. I have , marrocan friends (my grandparents are from all over europe) and russian friends and we all laugh about each other ancestors. It is simply a friendly behavior, a different custom. It doesnt mean we treat eahcother as inferiors to one another because of different ancestry.

About the beduoins. Really, zulu, this is starting to get tiring. Yes, israel is a country with many problems. We have many issues to work about and many wrongs to fix. But that's what we do since we are a democracy everyone can point out those problems, and you can see it for yourself since you qoute those people. Enough with the bashing, really. I am sure the USA, south america, easern europe, france, germany etc all have problems. Why not adressing them? Why only israel? What are you trying to show here?

Me and everyone else here and all the jews in the world are normal people exactly like you. We have racist people, bad people, good people smart people, secualr people, religious people. I will not shout änti semite" every time I am being critisized, while some non rational people do.

 

[Zardnaar]

Most such abuses everyone else carried out was in the 19th century and in most Democracies compensation of some sort or another is now being payed. Migratory people always get the shaft. I grew up near the Waitaki river in New Zealand and back in the good old colonial days the British surveyed the area and found 600 odd Maori living at the mouth of the river and allocated them enough land to live on. However the British only sailed down the coast and missed the other 5000 or so Maori living in camps further up the river. Guess who got the short end of the stick when the settlers turned up wanting land?

Just because no one is living on the land doesn't mean someones not using it or wants it. A modern equivilent would use the arguement that someone who has a holiday home doesn't want it because they don't live their every day.

 

[Leha]

I think there is a huge misunderstanding here. I will try to make thing bright:
Leha, by saying in israel we call each other morrocan, russian or romanian and use stereotpyes, is not a racist. It is just the way people talk here. I have , marrocan friends (my grandparents are from all over europe) and russian friends and we all laugh about each other ancestors. It is simply a friendly behavior, a different custom. It doesnt mean we treat eahcother as inferiors to one another because of different ancestry.

About the beduoins. Really, zulu, this is starting to get tiring. Yes, israel is a country with many problems. We have many issues to work about and many wrongs to fix. But that's what we do since we are a democracy everyone can point out those problems, and you can see it for yourself since you qoute those people. Enough with the bashing, really. I am sure the USA, south america, easern europe, france, germany etc all have problems. Why not adressing them? Why only israel? What are you trying to show here?

Me and everyone else here and all the jews in the world are normal people exactly like you. We have racist people, bad people, good people smart people, secualr people, religious people. I will not shout änti semite" every time I am being critisized, while some non rational people do.

Thank you very much Winterfell. Sometimes my lack of english is embarrasing. I almost was labeled racist here

 

[CruddyLeper]

Didn't understand that. So I have no right to preserve my russian mentality?

You have no right to persecute people because they are not the same race as you.

Gotcha. How do you manage to drag THIS into bedouin thread? How?
This is another story. This is OT. Maybe you'll tell me into who's homes, how many and why fires IDF artillery and mortar rounds?

[/quote]

Easy. By showing there is a HUGE level in the different levels of force applied to a) Jewish Israeli citizens and b) Non-Jewish Non-Israeli Non-citizens who just happen to live on land you regard as yours by birthright.

Get it now? Israel is a state founded on racism. It has no future unless it learns to apply equal terms to both those of it's own ilk and those not of its own ilk.

It takes 2 sides to agree on a border. Doing it unilaterally will achieve zero.

Oh, suggest you look up "Palestine" in 1930s editions of Encyclopaedia Britaninica. Although I doubt there are any copies within Israel... the truth can be an ugly bastard sometimes.

 

[Leha]

You have no right to persecute people because they are not the same race as you.

I agree with you. Where did I state different?

Easy. By showing there is a HUGE level in the different levels of force applied to a) Jewish Israeli citizens and b) Non-Jewish Non-Israeli Non-citizens who just happen to live on land you regard as yours by birthright.

Get it now? Israel is a state founded on racism. It has no future unless it learns to apply equal terms to both those of it's own ilk and those not of its own ilk.

It takes 2 sides to agree on a border. Doing it unilaterally will achieve zero.

Oh, suggest you look up "Palestine" in 1930s editions of Encyclopaedia Britaninica. Although I doubt there are any copies within Israel... the truth can be an ugly bastard sometimes.

Bedouins are Israeli citisens. If you want to start Israeli/Palestinian debate, do it in another thread. So, it is OT, sorry.