More discrimination from Israel: but this time it's not towards Palestinians

[zulu9812]

Do you know english word volunteer? Vo-lun-te-er? Now tell me, how someone who is discriminated volunteers into army???

Okay, fair enough. I was wrong about the conscription part. Nonetheless, serving in the military us hardly a privilege. In many countries, including Britain, people join the military because they come from a poor background and have no other opportunities. I still fail to see how being 'allowed' to serve in the military disproves the rampant discrimination outlined in the opening article.

So, tell me, oh soo wise Zulu, if migratory people migrate on huge territory, state has no right to take some of that territory for building cities, national parks and other necessary establishments? BRING BACK INDIANS!! BRING BACK MAORI!!!

That is correct

This is fact. They steal cars. I tell you truth.

So all that all of the Beduoin people do is steal cars. Right...

White people used to say the same thing about blacks - "oh, they're all just criminals"

 

[zulu9812]

Moderator Action: Zulu - again you present a thread in a manner that is very close to being a straight-out troll thread.

Zulu9812 & Leha warned for flaming.

Either you improve the standard and turn this into a rational discussion, or it gets shut-down and those responsible held to account.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

I don't understand. I've presented an article which says that an ethnic group suffers from deliberate discrimination. What's wrong with drawing attention to their plight?
Moderator Action: Warned for public discussion of moderator actions. You know very well to PM the mods for clarification. - The Yankee
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Atropos]

Okay, fair enough. I was wrong about the conscription part. Nonetheless, serving in the military us hardly a privilege. In many countries, including Britain, people join the military because they come from a poor background and have no other opportunities. I still fail to see how being 'allowed' to serve in the military disproves the rampant discrimination outlined in the opening article.

If I might step in about this particular comment (I would need to know much more before taking a position on the issue as a whole), if you dip into the abundant literature on concepts of citizenship, you'll see that the right to fight for one's country has usually been considered an important part. States which deny this right to a particular body of citizens (e.g. Jews in prerevolutionary Russia) are in effect saying that this body lacks a stake in the country, i.e. that they are not real "citizens."

I think Leha may also be saying that, if Bedouins volunteer to serve in the army, this suggests that 1. the army works for them (is an "opportunity," to use your own language) and 2. that those who volunteer lack a fundamental quarrel with the state for which they fight.

 

[allhailIndia]

Mr. Zulu, u must get over this very, very annoying habit of declaiming all sorts of discrimination as 'racism'. Please understand there was a definite history behind the usage of the word 'race' in the context of racism and you only deprive it of meaning by saying that it is any form of descent based discrimination. The ECJ or ECHR is not the final decider of what is racism and what is not and its ratio are applicable in a certain context.
There can be various kinds of descent based discrimination, including casteism, or tribalism (for lack of a better word describing discrimination against native peoples as in India e.g., or even between a dominant and non-dominant tribe)...
ALl of these have different ideologies based on the dominant groups desire to control and to confuse them all and make blanket statements without reference to what the context is, I think, akin to trolling.

Also, since most of your threads are based on a single article, which rarely try to provide some sort of perspective of the 'other side', they are highly suspect in their journalistic integrity and seem to one-sided and consequently results in a troll war where someone tries to bring in the other perspective and gets attacked, though not necessarily by you...

It is one thing to draw attention to the plight of a certain oppressed group, but it is certainly another to draw all sorts of broad conclusions based on one side of the story. It would be perhaps appropriate if this topic revolved around a discussion of how nomadic people were treated in other countries or whether Israel was the exception, but you are using it to draw a broad conclusion that the Israeli state is racist. IF that were the case, every government is racist because one set of people may have been affected more or less by certain government policies than others. Then it would be a definite case of trolling if u r constantly blaming ONLY Israel as being racist and making it seem as an exception

 

[zulu9812]

Mr. Zulu, u must get over this very, very annoying habit of declaiming all sorts of discrimination as 'racism'.

Let's take a British example. In Britain, racially-aggravated assault carries a harsher prison sentence than 'normal' assault. If you were to assault somone, and your reason was that the victim was arab, you would get a more sever sentence than if, for example, you assaulted a white muslim because they are a muslim. I see both cases as equally bad discrimination.

 

[allhailIndia]

Let's take a British example. In Britain, racially-aggravated assault carries a harsher prison sentence than 'normal' assault. If you were to assault somone, and your reason was that the victim was arab, you would get a more sever sentence than if, for example, you assaulted a white muslim because they are a muslim. I see both cases as equally bad discrimination.

Your logic amounts to saying that because some red coloured fruits are apples, therefore, all red coloured fruits are apples. As 'bad' as it maybe, without recognizing what is going, the right method to tackle or deal with it will not be found. Indeed it may even be counter-productive. Calling the discrimination you referred to in the first post as discrimination implies the following:

1. The Jews are a separate 'race'
2. The Arabs are a separate 'race'
3. THe Bedouins are a separate 'race' or sub-set of the 'race' of Arabs.
4. One race is definitely differentiating on the sole basis of race.

The implications of the above are to accept Nazi pseudo-science about 'races', or at least the assumptions on which the rest of such bullsh!t is usually based.

If on the other hand, your point is that the Bedouins are being treated unfairly in Israel, fair enough, but your point would be better made by looking at the justifications sought to be raised by the Israeli authorities and whether they simply denied there was a problem or recognized that there was one, but sought to give other justifications for it. Simply finding reports that suit a pre-conceived notion or judgment puts you on the same level of trollers who pick out instances of suicide bombing to say that Arabs are violence-minded and brutal as a race..

 

[HighlandWarrior]

zulu, how come you every post of yours has to do with the west being evil/racist or jews being evil/racist? getting a little old, why not a post on the treatment of prisoners in china? ? ?

 

[Elrohir]

Now if only we could have a link from a site that isn't the self proclaimed "flagship of the left", we might be in business. Zulu, when are you going to learn? You need a good source if you want to make your point.

 

[zulu9812]

Now if only we could have a link from a site that isn't the self proclaimed "flagship of the left", we might be in business. Zulu, when are you going to learn? You need a good source if you want to make your point.

What on earth are you talking about? Are you seriously suggesting that bias = untruthfulness?

 

[Bill3000]

I would rather wish that, instead of accusing of racism, a term relating to the lies of a false categorization of humanity, that a term relating to the accusation of the unfair treatment of ethnicity (or, if you must, the accusation of someone feeling or acting on their feelings of the superiority of one ethnicity over another) would be used. Oh well. Godwin's Law has already been pulled in this thread.

What on earth are you talking about? Are you seriously suggesting that bias = untruthfulness?

Not necessarly, but it does hurt the credibility of your argument, (more specifically, it hurts the credibility of the evidence if it is from an noncredible source) and it is possible to reject said source is it is not credible. (This is different from the logical fallacy of the ad hominem fallacy, which states that you can't make an argument where the uncredibility of your source means that your argument is false.)

 

[zulu9812]

Not necessarly, but it does hurt the credibility of your argument, (more specifically, it hurts the credibility of the evidence if it is from an noncredible source) and it is possible to reject said source is it is not credible.

That's all rot. There is no reason to slur The Nation, other than you do not like what it prints. Ultimately, the naysayers don't give a damn what source I use. I once posted an article from The Times - which is one of the most austere publications in Britain and is also owned by Rupert Murdoch - and someone refused to believe it because it was 'left-wing lunacy'.

 

[Leha]

That's all rot. There is no reason to slur The Nation, other than you do not like what it prints. Ultimately, the naysayers don't give a damn what source I use. I once posted an article from The Times - which is one of the most austere publications in Britain and is also owned by Rupert Murdoch - and someone refused to believe it because it was 'left-wing lunacy

Any "non-biased" entity has it's biased member or two. I think NATFHE is respected organisation, but they performed stunt of highest stupidity just lately, and all because of their biased members.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2202443,00.html

 

[Neomega]

About the beduoins. Really, zulu, this is starting to get tiring. Yes, israel is a country with many problems. We have many issues to work about and many wrongs to fix. But that's what we do since we are a democracy everyone can point out those problems, and you can see it for yourself since you qoute those people. Enough with the bashing, really. I am sure the USA.... Why only israel? What are you trying to show here?

You must not post here often, because believe me, Zulu post stories about disgusting behavior by Americans and the British all the time.