More of a rant

[Old Fox]

Hey guys, thanks for the replys to this thread.

Regarding the big unit loss in the city. Yeah babs had a big cultural advantage because he had been capturing all the other civs wonders and had kept them for some time, but THAT is precisely why I had to go after his wonder cities. Anyways, I knew that the city would probably revert, but I just didn't expect it to be within 2 turns of capture. It was still in resist mode. Babs was Communist and I was still in democracy. Babs could not only not afford to subvert them, being in Democracy, I should have been imune... (I was mowing him down pretty good, and had to need to change over, let alone lose 7 turns of production to turn into a commie...) Of the whack of cities that I had conquered, it only seemed to happen to the cities that had the big numbers of units in them, or in weakly garrisoned ones that I had inavertently pulled units from for something.

By the way I have installed both the 1.11f and the 1.21f patches. THAT is why I was mad, because I read in the damn patch notes that this was not supposed to happen when "sufficient" forces were in the newly conquered city. I mean, losing 160 units to flips in 2 turns should NOT happen. I mean it literally took the complete offensive edge off my army in two turns. An edge that I had painfully built up with production over some 100 turns or so. (I had a long way to catch up to babs massive units tally. Almost having to double my military just to equal his.) Hopefully, (you never know) some programmer or designer will read this thread and say to themselves... "you know... I think he has a point there..." LOL

In regards to the English note. As specified in my post, I had the Intelligence Agency and spies, so I knew exactly how many of each type of unit they had, and knew that the English had not manufactured any subs at that point. I also hadn't traded my world map since way early in the games when I only had 3 cities. Also, the city was out on a point, so it was the only city that was in range of the tiles that my battleships were in.

 

[Old Fox]

Oooops...

I meant 1.17f patch (not 1.11f). (typo)

 

[Old Fox]

I just reread my earlier post...

When I was talking about how the AI untis showed up 12 tiles behind my lines. I should have clarified the following:

I was using my navy to monitor his troop movments of his OFFENSIVE portion of his army, that part that he had been conquering France with. Anyhow, I knew where the units were coming from, and could see their movement through his territory with my jets.

Anyhow, what I had neglected to mention, was that this "transgression" of the movement rules ocurred through a choke point. Two of the cities that I had conquered had mutual borders. In other words I had a continous border at this choke point that ran coast to coast. Under the rules, his units had to stop, since after the first square, they should have lost all of their movement points, regardless of the railroads. But, that they continued movement 12 tiles beyond this. Of course I can see them, as one fellow asked, since I had enough units in the area to illuminate all of the "vacant" spaces between the conquered cities right up to my front lines. that was not the issue, I know he can travel the area between the cities. The issue was how come his rail movement continued into MY territory. It was like the AI did not recognise that it was in enemy territory for the purposes of movement.

 

[damunzy]

Originally posted by Akka


I would not even ask for a full hard number. Just a rough guess from the local governor would make me feel much more involved in the game and lot less feeling that I'm just a toy in the hands of Goddess Randomness.
Let's say that each city would have a "loyalty meter", green for "loyal", yellow for "quiet", orange for "troubled" and red for "about to revolt".

wow, that is a great idea Akka. I wonder how we can get Firaxis' attention with all the other ppl clamoring to include "this" or "that".

and Fox, you can edit the post instead of posting anew...it hides the fact that you made a mistake if you catch it soon enough.

 

[sumthinelse]

Originally posted by Killer
to add to it:


My elite Cav, modded with HP bonus (13 HP) attacks n archer in the open (plains, 6 HP). It kills the Archer with 2 HP left.
Rinswe and repeat (seed save is off): out of 25 figths I loose 2, narrowly win 15, easily the rest. None, where my Cav isn`t hurt.

Firaxis: is there a combat bonus for the AI when seriously out-teched??????
I know there isn`t, but I start to wonder!

Killer, I have always suspected that archers defending on plains/grassland, unfortified, win more battles than they deserve to. For example: yesterday, out of 70 attacks, my full strength elite cav vs unfortified regular archer on desert (defense bonus 10% for desert) the archer won 6 times.

Maybe the game gets confused and uses some old civ2 archer routines on defense, where the archer was stronger on defense?

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

Originally posted by sumthinelse

Maybe the game gets confused and uses some old civ2 archer routines on defense, where the archer was stronger on defense?

Hehe, after all I still occasionally play Civ2 on the same 'puter!

Seriously, the Archers seems to be between their nominal strenght of 1 and a more realistic 2. The game making up for design mistakes on it`s own? Is it alive?????

 

[Mavfin]

This has worked for me 95% of the time. I've had 3 cities flip back that I've captured in 3 months of civ3 play, and one of those, I wasn't able to kill off 10 resisters in 3 turns, as I didn't have the units to do what I'm outlining below, so I kinda thought it might flip back.

I *always* have, if possible, a large stack of defenders moving along with my offensive troops. If I've got tanks, you can bet there's a large stack of inf guarding the artillery, just to garrison captured cities with. I hardly ever raze cities, not even capitals.

When I capture a city, and they tell me there are X resisters, I move into the city 2X units, 3X units if the resisters are over 5, if I have that many units. If I'm in industrial or later, I usually do have the units if I'm in offensive war mode.

Next turn, almost always, the resistance ends. Then I pull units out and leave my standard 3 or 4 good defenders.

Also, as soon as I capture, I rush a temple. I've found rushing costs much less if you wait 1 turn. An improvement with 1 turn of shields built on it doesn't cost 8 gold/shield to finish, while one you just started/changed to does.

It's worked for me really well. I just don't have the flip problems that a lot of people talk about. This strategy has worked for me from Chieftain to Diety, so it's not anything to do with diff level.

Everyone has different strategies, tho. Good luck!

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by Mavfin
This has worked for me 95% of the time.

Works for me, too. If I am near the enemy capital, I also rush the cathedral or library.

 

[Old Fox]

In response to Zachriel...

Yes, the city that flipped twice on me was the last city before babs capital. Maybe thats why? Who knows...

I mean in WWII, could you imagine that the allies get just outside Berlin and lose all of their offensive units??? LOL

It's a playability issue ultimately. Kinda like the 32 city limit on huge maps that rules out a conquest victory without razing cities.

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by Old Fox
Yes, the city that flipped twice on me was the last city before babs capital. Maybe thats why? Who knows...

Proximity of the enemy capital is crucial.

I mean in WWII, could you imagine that the allies get just outside Berlin and lose all of their offensive units??? LOL

I'm a very imaginative person.

It's a playability issue ultimately. Kinda like the 32 city limit on huge maps that rules out a conquest victory without razing cities.

I agree. There was probably a better, or at the least, a more intuitive game mechanic. But Civ3 is worth the effort and cultural is certainly playable.

 

[Evincar]

Ok killer, I've read your post about Cav Vs archer and I'm going to tell you some hard numbers...

Assuming the archer is not fortified, your cav has 6/7.1=0.845 chances of winning each round (hurt the archer). that's a 84.5% of chances for each round. So, if the archer has 6 HP you have a 36.4 % of killing it without getting your cav hurt. So, more or less 9 cavs should have won with no damage.

But, as you say, NONE of your cavs was untouched... let me tell you that the odds of this to happen after 25 rounds are...

0.00121 %!!!!!!

F****** amazing!!! I can't tell you the chances of the archer winning the cav, but I'll bet they are far beyond 0.1% (It's sad, I got ten out of ten in statistics and I've forgotten almost everything ), so you should have lost one Cav if you are very unlucky. let's not even talk about losing two.

So, IMO, your experiments proves that there IS something wrong about combat, or that obsolete units DO get a bonus. Sorry, I won't trust in that 0.001% ...

Lots of thanks for your little experiments, Killer. It proves lots of things...

 

[Zouave]

The bottom line is that obsolete units from an older era are too strong against more modern units.

I long ago posted that there shouid be an automatic combat bonus to units in combat against those from an older era. Since I can't code that into the game, I Edited up all combat values of units after the ancient period.

 

[Pygzilla]

the modern units must go into combat over confident.
They don't make sure there guns are loaded until they are impaled on a speer

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by Killer
My elite Cav, modded with HP bonus (13 HP) attacks n archer in the open (plains, 6 HP). It kills the Archer with 2 HP left.
Rinswe and repeat (seed save is off): out of 25 figths I loose 2, narrowly win 15, easily the rest. None, where my Cav isn`t hurt.

Your game is obviously heavily modded and you haven't actually provided all the information to determine what the odds should be. Might be easier if you provide a save game.

 

[Regordete]

Well being a relative newbie, I'm not 100% how the combat works , but it does come across as *voodoo* or cheating by the AI ( more like quasi inteligence). Its really helarious to watch spearman beat a tank to death

I dont even bother with mech infantry for defense. It seems infantymen are indestructable ( or just about). Stick 4 in a city and the quasi inteligence will never figure how to attack them.

Personaly, I think there were some big exploits in combat and rather than reworking the combat scheme, they just plugged in a bunch of voodoo to give the AI a chance.

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

@ Evincar: I know, I`m the guy who got hit by a brick falling from an illegal construction site - TWICE!

@ Zachriel: nope, the info`s there: normal Civ3.bic with HP modde to be 3 times normal values, nothing else!

 

[sumthinelse]

Originally posted by Killer
@ Evincar: I know, I`m the guy who got hit by a brick falling from an illegal construction site - TWICE!

@ Zachriel: nope, the info`s there: normal Civ3.bic with HP modde to be 3 times normal values, nothing else!

When you count the victories/defeats: How do you classify it when the cav retreats with 1 hit point left? I classify that as an archer victory because the AI gets to attack next turn.

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by Killer
@ Evincar: I know, I`m the guy who got hit by a brick falling from an illegal construction site - TWICE!

@ Zachriel: nope, the info`s there: normal Civ3.bic with HP modde to be 3 times normal values, nothing else!

Sorry, didn't see the mention of "normal civ3.bic".

But anyway, the chance of losing your cavalry (13hp 6-attack) v. archer (6hp 1-defense) is so close to 0% that you should probably post the game. There must be some other factor involved.

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

@ Zachriel: it wasn`t mentioned explicitly, I have to admit, I mixed up threads. Sorry!

I can`t post the sav, sorry, I always save my games on the same name (1.sav) because I otherwise can`t remember which one it was so it has long since been overwritten. But if i come across another strange string I`ll post - promise!

remember: who posted the only healthy Tank lost to spearman sav ever?????

right, me! So it is my bad luck

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by Killer
[Bremember: who posted the only healthy Tank lost to spearman sav ever?????

right, me! So it is my bad luck [/B]

I remember. You are certainly one in a billion.