Most effective Apostle promotion for spreading religion?

[LoneDragon]

Pilgrim for quantity, 3 extra spreads; or Proselytiser or Translator for quality?

 

[FearSunn]

Debatier. For killing opponent religious units is most effective way to spread.

 

[Disgustipated]

All of them. I like proselytiser or translator for the first "hit" on a city, then follow up by 1 or 2 shots from an apostle with extra charges. Debater provides cover.

 

[Scaramanga]

Translator: large foreign cities with no dominant religion
Proselytiser: cities with another dominant religion
Pilgrim: smaller cities with a natural wonder en route
Orator: smaller cities- no natural wonder en route
Debater: weaker rival apostles or missionaries, other friendlies for flanking/support

 

[OmegaDestroyer]

I find Proselytizer to be the best for wiping out other civs' influence. If you use the religious governor, a combination of Translator and Proselytizer can easily bring three cities into your fold.

 

[Scaramanga]

It can really depend what kind of pressure a city is getting and how many followers it currently has. If any old apostle charge will do then Indulgence Vendor is the best option.

 

[shaglio]

I guess this goes to show that the Religious unit promotions are actually well balance. There are optimal choices based on different situations, and no one promotion is the overwhelming best choice in all situations.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

I guess this goes to show that the Religious unit promotions are actually well balance. There are optimal choices based on different situations, and no one promotion is the overwhelming best choice in all situations.

True with respect to the spread promotions, but using spread is horribly inefficient compared to killing religious opponents in combat.

As long as an opponent has founded a religion and is generating Faith, they'll spend that Faith on religious units to defend their religion. With a handful of Apostles, you can surround their nearest Holy Site, kill those defenders as they're created, and convert their whole civilization without ever using a spread. It's only civs that don't generate much Faith, and civs that didn't found a religion, where you may need to use spread to mop up. Ideally, you'll convert those civs first, when opposing religions are still capable of sending their own Apostles/Missionaries into those territories to dispute your control, as that requires far less Faith than getting rid of the opposition first and having to create units with limited spread charges to spend on converting the heathen.

 

[Scaramanga]

True with respect to the spread promotions, but using spread is horribly inefficient compared to killing religious opponents in combat.

As long as an opponent has founded a religion and is generating Faith, they'll spend that Faith on religious units to defend their religion. With a handful of Apostles, you can surround their nearest Holy Site, kill those defenders as they're created, and convert their whole civilization without ever using a spread. It's only civs that don't generate much Faith, and civs that didn't found a religion, where you may need to use spread to mop up. Ideally, you'll convert those civs first, when opposing religions are still capable of sending their own Apostles/Missionaries into those territories to dispute your control, as that requires far less Faith than getting rid of the opposition first and having to create units with limited spread charges to spend on converting the heathen.

True if you already have the upper hand. Fighting enemy apostles that have Debater, Holy ground, and supporting units can be tough.

 

[Disgustipated]

As a side question to this thread, how often are you guys using gurus if going the religious warfare route? I've built a couple in my couple recent religious victories, but still haven't needed to have a lot of them. But I tend to do religious victories inefficiently, using lots of apostles. While the religious warfare mentioned above is ideal, sometimes enemy apostles aren't where I need them to be, and are often halfway across the world.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

As a side question to this thread, how often are you guys using gurus if going the religious warfare route? I've built a couple in my couple recent religious victories, but still haven't needed to have a lot of them. But I tend to do religious victories inefficiently, using lots of apostles. While the religious warfare mentioned above is ideal, sometimes enemy apostles aren't where I need them to be, and are often halfway across the world.

If you're going religious combat, you need a steady supply of Gurus to maintain your Apostle wolfpack.

If there are no enemy religious units nearby but the civ has Faith, it'll start creating defending units once you enter their territory, so typically you don't need to wait too long for defenders to show up to kill. Mind you, though, it's usually most productive to send your wolfpack wherever the enemy units are.

 

[BarbarianHunter]

If you're going religious combat, you need a steady supply of Gurus to maintain your Apostle wolfpack.

If there are no enemy religious units nearby but the civ has Faith, it'll start creating defending units once you enter their territory, so typically you don't need to wait too long for defenders to show up to kill. Mind you, though, it's usually most productive to send your wolfpack wherever the enemy units are.

There should be an apostle promotion or Moksha ability or wonder that grants the Scythian/War College heal upon defeating an enemy ability.

 

[LoneDragon]

Ok so assuming there are no small cities I need to convert, is Translator>Pilgrim?

 

[Lord Lakely]

Debater is nearly always the best choice because of the AI's Apostle spam, but it depends largely on context. In my current game, I'm stranded on a continent with only two other founded religions and both of the founder civs have really low faith output. So I opted for Translator and it worked out perfectly ^_^

 

[Lord Lakely]

Ok so assuming there are no small cities I need to convert, is Translator>Pilgrim?

Absolutely. One conversion from a Translator provides 660 pressure, and they get three of them. That's a total of 1980 pressure from one unit, which is more than Pilgrim, which provides only 1320.

Pilgrim is better for converting your own cities.

 

[Scaramanga]

Ok so assuming there are no small cities I need to convert, is Translator>Pilgrim?

Both if you can get the Cardinal governor to Patron Saint.

 

[Halcyan2]

Generally, I vote for Debater. Best long-term use

Pilgrim is quite good for your first few because you can get free spreads and still use them for Beliefs and Inquisition.

Also note that Proselytizer and Translator can be especially strong with + spreads. Hagia Sophia gives a bonus spread. There is a Golden Age dedication that gives you 2 bonus spreads. If you chose Mosque that is an additional spread. Furthermore, with the right Governor, you get a bonus promotion too so you can combine Translator with Proselytizer. Or Translator with Pilgrim.

 

[kaspergm]

There should be an apostle promotion of Moksha ability or wonder that grants the Scythian/War College heal upon defeating an enemy ability.

There is. It's called the War Department.

 

[BarbarianHunter]

There is. It's called the War Department.

Yeah. There is that. I seem to have managed to misclassify the War Department as War College (as my games are either decided or over before it's available). I was thinking of actually using the War Dept. healing ability, not just theorizing about it then having my game end. My point is that I, for one, would be glad to chop out a wonder, or concentrate envoys into Moksha, if I could avoid having to add Guru's to my theological conversion caravan.