Most important invention/development?

[smalltalk]

The condom, the anti-baby-pill etc.

 

[Tavenier]

Originally posted by Sean Lindstrom
If it's a matter of life or death, I'd say that's pretty influential! Agriculture is directly responsible for the 6 billion people alive today, all of them. Of course the fact of their existance must be more important than any other qualities of life.

Agriculture's such a biggy in the greater picture, that even broken into hundreds of smaller advances, each one's a huge boon to humanity. We don't even compare it to other developments; it's in a class of its own.

You are missing the point. Of course food is a matter of life or death. But if one of any of the agricultural changes did not take place then there maybe would be less people today (which would be a GOOD thing actually), but the people of that time wouldn't die without it. What you don't know you don't miss. Of course you are going to name examples of famine which could be prevented by more modern farming advances, but the Pest, World Wars and disasters caused millions to die too, but the world isn't a worse place then before, and sometimes even better.
All the advances you name are all improvements of the ancient agriculture, developed thousands of years ago. Better equipment, better waterworks, better techniques, fertilizer, and so on. So if this was a poll on advances throughout all history agriculture would win easily, but now it doesn't stand a chance, because it is just improvements on existing concepts.
And if it is a class of its own then why bring it up here and name it the most influental invention?

 

[Aphex_Twin]

Originally posted by Ribannah
None of the ones listed. The most important inventions were agricultural.

Agriculture, undoubtably. It revolutionized every aspect of human affairs. It pushed for the creation of the first cities, kick-started astronomy, mathematics, more elaborate language. Surplus spurred trade, social differentiation.

By inventing agriculture, man invented WORK.


For the future, the greatest inventions will be genetics and robotics. These will be the things that will render WORK useless.

 

[Tavenier]

Originally posted by Aphex_Twin


Agriculture, undoubtably. It revolutionized every aspect of human affairs. It pushed for the creation of the first cities, kick-started astronomy, mathematics, more elaborate language. Surplus spurred trade, social differentiation.

By inventing agriculture, man invented WORK.


For the future, the greatest inventions will be genetics and robotics. These will be the things that will render WORK useless.

Man, this is hopeless...............
It is said often in this thread that it should be an invention of THE LAST 1000 YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So not an invention that made the first cities possible!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Ribannah]

Then you shouldn't have put Steampower in the list. It was invented in ancient Greece.

The multi-crop cycle is probably the most influential Agricultural advance of the last 1000 years (the method of interplanting, that inspired the Dutch, is probably from slightly before 1000 AD).
Like I said, it tripled the non-agricultural workforce.

 

[Drewcifer]

I vote birth control, it has utterly changed the dynamics of the world we live in - and made it more fun.

Of the ones listed: sanitation, it has probably done more to improve the human condition than the others and has saved the most lives.

 

[Tavenier]

Originally posted by Ribannah
Then you shouldn't have put Steampower in the list. It was invented in ancient Greece.

The multi-crop cycle is probably the most influential Agricultural advance of the last 1000 years (the method of interplanting, that inspired the Dutch, is probably from slightly before 1000 AD).
Like I said, it tripled the non-agricultural workforce.

The Greek (wasn't it it the Romans by the way?) invention of steampower was not revolutionary, becasue all they did with it was have doors opened by steampower to impress others.

Tripled the food output in some areas? More people is good?
I said in the last 1000 years, not 1004 years!!!

 

[Aphex_Twin]

Sanitation was present in ancient Rome, so that drops. Steam power also counts.

The compass was invented in China in the 3rd century BC, so it also falls short.

Gunpowder dates from the 8th century.

 

[Tavenier]

Originally posted by Aphex_Twin
Sanitation was present in ancient Rome, so that drops. Steam power also counts.

The compass was invented in China in the 3rd century BC, so it also falls short.

Gunpowder dates from the 8th century.

Yes, yes, yes, what else is new. Everybody on these forums knows that eg gunpowder was invented well before the Europeans start using it.
I thought about stating all that info behing all answers in the poll. But I thought that nobody would think to try and be smart and say stuff like this. I thought no one would bore the forum with that. But here we go again:
I mean the inventions/DEVELOPMENTS in the time they were used on a grand scale and changed the world. Fireworks in China did not change the world, only the lives of some upset evil spirits who were chased away.

Have you heard of a PC game called Civilization 3? In the tech tree of that game the advances are shown in about the chronological order they were important in history.

 

[Ribannah]

Originally posted by Tavenier
Tripled the food output in some areas?

Arithmetic is hard ....

Some effects (simplified):

[1]
Old situation: 90 farmers 10 merchants
New situation: 70 farmers 30 merchants

The new merchants had nothing to do so they built ships and funded explorations.

[2]
No starvation -> people live longer and healthier

[3]
More children -> population grows -> settlers / enough people to support an industry, excess merchants switch to industrialists

More people is good?

What does that have to do with the topic?

I said in the last 1000 years, not 1004 years!!!

I believe the Dutch golden age is not 1004 years ago yet but I could be mistaken ...

 

[Ribannah]

Originally posted by Tavenier
Have you heard of a PC game called Civilization 3? In the tech tree of that game the advances are shown in about the chronological order they were important in history.

Ah, now I get it. You found a new holy book.

 

[Tavenier]

Originally posted by Ribannah

Arithmetic is hard ....

Some effects (simplified):

[1]
Old situation: 90 farmers 10 merchants
New situation: 70 farmers 30 merchants

The new merchants had nothing to do so they built ships and funded explorations.

[2]
No starvation -> people live longer and healthier

[3]
More children -> population grows -> settlers / enough people to support an industry, excess merchants switch to industrialists


What does that have to do with the topic?

I believe the Dutch golden age is not 1004 years ago yet but I could be mistaken ...

Life for the Dutch is one big golden age!


I don't agree completely with point 2. Starvation still occured, because there were more people and because nobility often rather sell the grain then to feed citizens.
And I think with the age of exploration came the time of healthier living. Purely because people started to eat different kind of foods, instead of just grain and dairy. The potato is probably the most common food from the new world, but also tomatoes, corn, rice, spices, exotic fruits, different types of vegetables and so on.


Point 1 I do agree with fully. If you can produce more food with less people then the other can specialize in other things like construction, warfare, religion, production etc.

 

[Ribannah]

Originally posted by Tavenier
And I think with the age of exploration came the time of healthier living. Purely because people started to eat different kind of foods, instead of just grain and dairy. The potato is probably the most common food from the new world, but also tomatoes, corn, rice, spices, exotic fruits, different types of vegetables and so on.

That is, indeed, also important. To be even more correct, perhaps, I should list the order like this:

(a) Arabia controls the trade with the far east
(b) Europe seeks new trade routes over sea, finds new worlds
(c) America offers new foods and new farming techniques
(d) Europe grows the new foods
(e) The Dutch, and after them the English, adjust their farming techniques (whereas some others don't and have food shortages while trying to keep up in trade)
(f) The Mercantile Revolution is started in The Netherlands
(g) England follows suit and starts the Industrial Revolution

 

[Aphex_Twin]

Originally posted by Tavenier
Yes, yes, yes, what else is new. Everybody on these forums knows that eg gunpowder was invented well before the Europeans start using it.
I thought about stating all that info behing all answers in the poll. But I thought that nobody would think to try and be smart and say stuff like this. I thought no one would bore the forum with that. But here we go again:
I mean the inventions/DEVELOPMENTS in the time they were used on a grand scale and changed the world. Fireworks in China did not change the world, only the lives of some upset evil spirits who were chased away.

"Inventions developed in the last 1000 years".

People 100 years from now will say : "Meh, what did those people back in 2004 did with computers anyway? Computers were invented TODAY !"

 

[Pirate]

Electricity, hands down. Without it our civilization collapses. EVERYTHING in modern life relies on electricitiy and electricity has opened the gates to countless new developments. The world after electricity is wholly different than the world before it.

 

[Pongui]

Originally posted by Pirate
Electricity, hands down...

Substitute "Electricity" for "The Grid", and I'm with you.

***

Tavenier. You're saying there have been no great, Earth-moving developments in agriculture for the last 1000 years? I don't get it. I can give examples like the combine or the seed drill, I can point to the "infertile" Canadian prairie shunned by farmers just 100 years ago (as if that makes a difference what do you eat, may I ask?), but it seems you'll lump all agricultural developments into one single "invention" like say, the singular unelaborated "invention" of "machines", "weaponry", or "religion". You'd be shocked if I said, "Oh well the development of Protestantism is meaningless, for Christianity covers that already."

Just a little agricultural development like the broadcast seeder (a sort of seed machine gun) had the effect of freeing up hordes of young men from agricultural toil. They then proceeded to the front lines, to man gatling guns. Now which development really shaped history?

 

[covok48]

Agreed. However, I believe agriculture is in a class of itself and otherwise is deserving of another thread.

Tavenier is not saying that there has been no Earth-moving developements in agriculture. I believe the focus is a more civ-esqe way of looking at developements/invnetions.

And come to think of it...Pirate has a very good point.

 

[sebanaj]

Capitalism as the main mode of production.

 

[Tavenier]

Originally posted by covok48
Agreed. However, I believe agriculture is in a class of itself and otherwise is deserving of another thread.

Tavenier is not saying that there has been no Earth-moving developements in agriculture. I believe the focus is a more civ-esqe way of looking at developements/invnetions.

And come to think of it...Pirate has a very good point.

Thanks covok, I indeed did not say there weren't any earth moving developments. As a whole agriculture was, is and always will be the most important aspect of human life. I tried to make clear that not any single aspect of agriculture could compete on its own with something like electricity or plastics.
You could not say that the invention of the CD-ROM, printer, windows, mouse and others are the best invention. But you could say that computers as a whole are.


You could indeed start a whole new thread on agriculture. Maybe you should, could be interesting.

 

[Ribannah]

Originally posted by Tavenier
I tried to make clear that not any single aspect of agriculture could compete on its own with something like electricity or plastics.

That is first of all a matter of grouping and naming.
Second, in the bigger picture I don't think Electricy and Plastics are that important. Sure, they are everywhere today, but there are plenty of alternatives. For instance, computers can be built that are mechanical, hydraulical, optical or biological, instead of electronical.