Most Powerful Wonders

[sk8boardbob2]

I know, I know, wonders are bad. I've played enough Civ III and been around these forums enough to know that building wonders can be a bad decision and at the higher levels, cripple your empire. I agree with that philosophy and rarely build wonders myself, unless I'm going for cultural victory.

So I have a save right now as the Ottomans on Emperor where I got a SGL from learning Currency first. And now I don't know what to do with it. I've become so accustomed to not building wonders that when a free one is handed to me a plate, I don't know what to do. The Pyramids are still available and likely what I will go for but the granaries can be a bit of a double edged sword (fast growth can lead to unhappiness and cash problems if you don't have the infrastructure set up).

So hypothetically, if you had a SGL and could rush a wonder, which ones would you pick in each age? My picks

AA- Pyramids or GLib (if severely behind in tech race)
MA- Leonardo's (Sun Tzu's is nice but you probably already have barracks up in the core cities with enough production to build units, although it allows to heal in one turn in every city, even newly captured ones)
IA- ToE
MA- UN? (prevents a diplomatic loss since you control elections. all the others seem pointless)

 

[Raliuven]

On Emperor?

I would rush:

AA - Pyramids if the continient is large, if water maybe GLH. GLB is probably not worth it. Pyramids don't expire and a free granary will help even in science farm areas. ToA is also good for domination, but I rarely play for quick domination.
MA - Probably Cops or Newtons but Smiths isn't bad. Leos and Suns are okay in some situations but probably not.
IA - NOT ToE. I'll build that later to capture some MA techs. Maybe Hoovers to get it out of the way. Even US to break any cascades. Hoovers is also nice if the landmass is large and you are going for space.
MA - UN if I want the vote. Otherwise SETI or Internet depending on landmass.

 

[Bamspeedy]

The Pyramids are still available and likely what I will go for but the granaries can be a bit of a double edged sword (fast growth can lead to unhappiness and cash problems if you don't have the infrastructure set up)

Do you want a size 6 town with 6 people producing, or a size 7 city with....6 people producing. The 7th becomes a specialist and is better than having nothing. I'll take the bigger city everytime.

Sure, sometimes it isn't beneficial to crank up the luxury slider if only 1 or 2 cities need it, so if I have excess population sometimes I just make specialists rather than up the luxury slider until I get the happiness problems solved...it all depends on how many cities (and which cities) need the extra luxury tax. Free granaries are awesome (ok, not so much on an island map).

I agree with your choices. Leo and Sun Tzu's kind of depends on the map and how many units I need to upgrade. I like Smith's but I have to admit it almost never beats getting TOE.

 

[sk8boardbob2]

The benefit of free granaries is so beneficial over time that Pyramids is the right choice most of the time. But say you're in Republic with no luxes, with size 6/7 cities across your empire, you're looking at 50% on the luxury slider if not more. That can cripple your research abilities. Though with extra production from a larger population you could do with some pointy-stick research.

 

[vmxa]

Remember that holding an SGL means you cannot get an MGL. That may not be an issue, but probably would at least prevent you for holding it for any UN or later wonders.

One more consideration for me would be who is making and likely to get some of these wonders? Especially Pyramids. If someone close at hand is odds on to get it, then I would use SGL for something else and take the Pyramids from them later.

May want to not wait for Newtons, that is far off as well. I could see HG or MoM to get that capitol in great shape. Giving any of those wonders, you should not have trouble building Copes.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

Pyramids. There should not be any kind of argument about that. If you fear that your cities grow too fast ... There are easy solutions for that:
- You can use the lux slider in order to make more people happy.
- Or you can build workers and settlers from the 'excess population'.
- Or you can hire scientists or tax collectors with the unhappy 'excess population'.

And the Pyramids make only real sense if it is somewhat early. I.E. when you benefit a good deal from them with respects to get your cities up to size. (Up to size means, size 12 for core cities and whatever is desirable for specialist farms. )

Getting your cities up to size and then taking the Pyramids makes little sense.

 

[Verarde]

All of this depends on the type of game you're going for. If you want a cultural victory, you're going to want Temple of Artemis in the AA. If you want a military victory, Leonardo's helps get more powerful units cheaper, and Sun Tzu's is a nice bonus as well. ToE is great for a science boost, and in the modern age, there generally isn't much worth rushing for me.

 

[splunge the 2nd]

Do a scientific golden age
A lot depends on the map. The lighthouse can be great on archipeligo while the get a blank in every city on the continent is only worth it on a continent.
I love Hoover's.

 

[Raliuven]

I think you need a sarcasm warning on that golden age post . . .

 

[tR1cKy]

My picks are:
AA - Great Lighthouse: whatever the map, it usually helps a lot with naval invasions.
MA - Sun Tzu all the way, barracks are useful everywhere.
IA - dunno, game is usually won in early to mid medieval era.
Modern: LOL

 

[Richie0]

ancient - pyramids

medieval - sun tzus, leonardos

sometimes if i get a SGL when i'm researching currency or whatever in ancient era, then i'll save it for sun tzus

industrial - idk, game's won by then

modern - don't play the modern era

 

[splunge the 2nd]

I think you need a sarcasm warning on that golden age post . . .

Sarcasm warning

 

[MysteryX]

I suppose a related question would be, are there any Wonders you would grab with a fortuitous Scientific Great Leader appearance, not because you need the Wonder, but you want to deny it to your enemies?

I just finished a game where I had that question early, because I had quite good luck with two Scientific Great Leaders early in the Ancient Age. Using the first to grab the Pyramids was an easy call. I wasn't quite sure what to do with the second one.

I might have grabbed Statute of Zeus next if I could have, not necessarily because I would have found the extra units critical for me early (though free units are nice to have), but because I would not have wanted a neighbor to have it to build up a stack of death to aim at me. I wasn't connect to ivory yet though, so I couldn't take it. One of my other options was the Great Library, and I wondered whether I wanted to deny that to one of my opponents. I decided though that as long as I could remain in the tech lead, I didn't care if one of my opponents was using the Great Library to maintain a tie for second place in tech. With no wonders I wanted for myself and none I was motivated to deny my opponents, I took the scientific golden age.

The U.N. seems to be the one wonder that is important to grab simply to deny it to opponents. Are there others?

 

[vmxa]

With no wonders I wanted for myself and none I was motivated to deny my opponents, I took the scientific golden age.

Maybe you are not aware, but the Scientific Golden Age does not work. You just wasted an SGL.

 

[MysteryX]

Maybe you are not aware, but the Scientific Golden Age does not work. You just wasted an SGL.

That was the first time I had tried it, and it didn't seem to be making as much of a difference as I had hoped. Now I know why.

 

[vmxa]

Yeah it is tricky as is it looks like it is working and shows a faster breakthrough. Then the breakthrough happens later. It was revealed right away, but they never fixed it.

 

[vorlon_mi]

I suppose a related question would be, are there any Wonders you would grab with a fortuitous Scientific Great Leader appearance, not because you need the Wonder, but you want to deny it to your enemies?

The U.N. seems to be the one wonder that is important to grab simply to deny it to opponents. Are there others?

I like to get Leonardos -- not *need*, but like -- since I do a lot of upgrading. In my experience, the AI builds new units rather than upgrading, so I don't think that fits the criteria of "important to deny". Since I try to build a science city, it's frustrating if I lose the race for Copes. The AI doesn't use its ships well enough to deny them Magellan's. The AI gets a passive benefit from Smith's and Mike's Chapel, but I'm not sure I would go out of my way to deny an AI from getting them.

One could make a case for Sun Tzu, to avoid facing veteran AI stacks of doom. But I don't that's a really strong case.

Taking a different view, if one is going for a cultural victory, esp. the single city 20k,
then one would use the SGL to get key wonders -- or to secure Shakes. As vmxa points out, while you're holding onto the SGL, you can't get an MGL. Can you afford to hold an SGL while you research the optional techs to get to Free Artistry? Hmmm...

 

[Buttercup]

Ah, wonders!

I love wonders!

I rarely play past Regent primarily because I just love to build wonders!

So, as far as wonders are concerned I am truly an expert - which, ironically, makes me a noob at Civ

But anyway, my wonder preference criteria are as follows:

Does it expire? No? Awesome!
Does it give a free building? Yes? Awesome!

So my awesome list for SGLs is as follows:

Pyramids - permanent free Granaries everywhere!
Sun Tzu's Military Academy - permanent free Barracks everywhere!
Smith's Trading - permanent free Markets, Banks, Stock exchanges, Commercial Docks(once built) everywhere!

There is no disadvantage to having these wonders no matter what game or difficulty level. Even on a small island it's still a substantial bonus, both economically and productively and therefore scientifically.

For mega capital cities the following are beautiful to behold:

Colossus - streets paved with gold
Mausoleum of Mausollos - contented streets paved with gold
Sistine Chapel - Thoroughly contented streets paved with gold
Copernicus' Observatory - Brainy thoroughly contented street paved with gold
Newton's University - Supreme beings thoroughly contented paved with gold

For culture games those doubling culture points from 1000 year old monuments draw one to:

The Oracle
Temple of Artemis
The Great Library
Sistine chapel
JS Bach's Cathedral
Shakespeare's Theatre
Copernicus' Observatory
Newton's University

For Civ bashing and Army accumulation then you can't really refuse the freeby of:

The Statue of Zeus
Sun Tzu
Knight's Templar
Leonardo's Workshop

But yet even I, yes I, the guy who loves wonders, really can't ever be bothered with:

The Great Wall... Hmmm, walls... hmmm... they don't have a fee attached anyway and only cost, like, 10 shields and, like, they never seem to stop those Arnold Shwartzenorris Warriors anyway.
The Hanging Gardens... wow, it's expired before I could even finish writing this senten
Universal Sufferage... if things are so bad you need, like, one guy in a town to keep content in a war, it's probably time to negotiate that peace bargain anyway.
Hoover Dam... pollution strikes whatever you build, and who needs freeby production in a couple of towns at this point anyway
All Modern Age wonders... I suppose I could cut and paste my description of the Hoover Dam and amend a few words?

The other stuff:

Great Lighthouse - great for islands!
Magellan's Voyage - great for Islands!
Theory of Evolution - Nothing lost from having two free techs!

It's kind of a shame the wonders were mangled so much for Civ3 after Civ2. The biggest shocker has to be The Great Wall. Free Walls at the beginning of the Medieval Age is really quite ludicrous. In Civ 2 it was available from the first turn and, like, kinda made sense that way...

 

[Lord Emsworth]

The U.N. seems to be the one wonder that is important to grab simply to deny it to opponents. Are there others?

The Theory of Evolution maybe. You have to build it yourself to really profit from it. But that is partly due to the fact that the AI can hardly be trusted to do anything worthwhile with it.

 

[timerover51]

I play a modified game with all of the Wonders set to never expire, and some added bonuses for many of the Wonders. That does make for bad news of someone else gets one. However, for unmodified Wonders in the Industrial and Modern Eras, I would go with the following.

The Theory of Evolution for the two free Advances in the Industrial Era.

The Apollo Program for the Modern Era, as I like to know what is going on with the opposition.

I play with the Diplomatic Victory option not available, so I do not worry about the UN.