Most versatile civ

[Hasire]

Hmm, forgive me if I appear to be a noob, but wouldn't that mean the Romans and Greeks are actually stronger? (They get a much earlier advantage than the Monghols).

It is very hard to rush someone on a high difficulty with hopolites or CC. And kheshiks are better at taking cities than legions or ballistas, so they will be able to take more civs.

 

[chazzycat]

So in the medieval period you rule the battlefield, but before and after that you don't have anything going for you. That kind of makes you weak compared to say, France, who rules the late game in military power but also has a very important special power that gives them extra culture up to steam power (and the social policies you buy remain working) or Japan's nearly overpowered special power.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I can't see how ruling a single time period because of one special unit makes you one of the most powerful domination civs.

You are missing the extent to which Keshiks dominate the battlefield. Their ability to deal damage without taking any, and to execute hit & run attacks flawlessly, are unmatched. Once you learn how to manage their movement points it's easy to take down enemy cities without even taking a single damage point. You are essentially guaranteed to take down anyone near you, on any difficulty level. No other unit gives that kind of comparative advantage.

Even if you don't kill everyone with Keshiks you should have a monstruous empire and from there can out-compete the other AI for eventual domination.

 

[Bamboocha]

It is very hard to rush someone on a high difficulty with hopolites or CC. And kheshiks are better at taking cities than legions or ballistas, so they will be able to take more civs.

I believe it's hard to rush hoplites and CC, but how are keshiks better at taking cities than legionaires and ballistae? Keshiks are cavalry, which means they get a penalty vs cities, and they're also ranged units which means they can't actually invade the city. Meanwhile the legionaires are a melee unit and the ballista is a siege unit, with a bonus vs cities. I'd think the legionaire-ballista combo is stronger, though I could be mistaken.

You are missing the extent to which Keshiks dominate the battlefield. Their ability to deal damage without taking any, and to execute hit & run attacks flawlessly, are unmatched. Once you learn how to manage their movement points it's easy to take down enemy cities without even taking a single damage point. You are essentially guaranteed to take down anyone near you, on any difficulty level. No other unit gives that kind of comparative advantage.

Even if you don't kill everyone with Keshiks you should have a monstruous empire and from there can out-compete the other AI for eventual domination.

That is a point, but wouldn't the same apply to arab camel archers? The arabs actually get a decent power and decent building to go with it as well.

 

[Hasire]

Not actually taking cities, though kheshisk are very good at that, but clearing away the units and destroying the city for a horseman to take with taking a point of damage. Camel archers aren't fast enough, they can only move up one, shoot, and retreat. Than they get killed by a knight inside the city.

 

[chazzycat]

Exactly. 3 movement is generally not enough to move into position, fire, then get out of harms way again. The options for unit placement with 5 movement points are much, much more versatile. You can almost always get your Keshiks into the right place at the right time.

 

[vexing]

Well, with kheshiks you can easily take out two civs on deity, sometime three. And khans will help you win later wars.

i think you mean 7

 

[snarzberry]

I believe it's hard to rush hoplites and CC, but how are keshiks better at taking cities than legionaires and ballistae? Keshiks are cavalry, which means they get a penalty vs cities, and they're also ranged units which means they can't actually invade the city. Meanwhile the legionaires are a melee unit and the ballista is a siege unit, with a bonus vs cities. I'd think the legionaire-ballista combo is stronger, though I could be mistaken.


That is a point, but wouldn't the same apply to arab camel archers? The arabs actually get a decent power and decent building to go with it as well.

You use a single horseman with your army as the city-taker. The khan is also a medic so he heals the wounded horse very fast. It's possible to have an army of keshiks by the mid 80's on standard speed, so you don't have to survive for very long and before that you're rocking chariot archers which are good on the defensive.

Keshiks pretty much do not go obsolete as by the end game (if the game lasts very long) they are highly promoted and have 2 range 3 attacks per turn, dealing a minimum of 2 dmg to any unit/city regardless of strength. You also typically have a horde of them by that stage and as they can move after attacking you can cycle them around and find way more attacks than you can with any other unit.

Practice with them for a bit and you'll become a true believer eventually, trust me. Given their potency coupled with how early they can be obtained and how long they are useful for, they are clearly the UU that has the largest effect on the quality of it's civ.

 

[The Pilgrim]

Bamboocha, Keshiks don't get obsolete. They're relevant for more turns than any other unit in Civ5. And by more I mean by far. Usually you can win without upgrading them. And in the worst case they'll be upgraded into heavily promoted tanks. Playing for Domination they have absolutely no competition. I like Arabs too actually. Camels are decent and UA is really good. But camels need continuous backup. And unlike keshiks they do become obsolete. I wouldn't bet Mongolia in the game restricted to "peaceful" VC's only though. I cannot imagine trying to win space/culture with them. Probably it's possible. I just wouldn't try. So without being familiar with DLC's I guess I'll choose Arabia as most versatile. It's strong both military and peacefully. However most likely science boosted Babylon and Korea are pretty universal as well.

 

[Liegence]

Is Persia not in the running? I mention mainly because it is one of my favorite civs, but not only does its UA benefit a generic occurance that can be timed, accessed somewhat early, and strung along for a continued sequence of benefits at critical moments, but it also adapts a war-boost to that mechanic. Additionally, it has a stalwart early game UU that is not resource dependant. The UB is solid too, adding happiness to an already useful building that greatly enhances the UA.

In what situation or victory condition does Persia not excel?

Btw, don't have the Babylon DLC so I can't consider it

 

[ahawk]

Is Persia not in the running? I mention mainly because it is one of my favorite civs, but not only does its UA benefit a generic occurance that can be timed, accessed somewhat early, and strung along for a continued sequence of benefits at critical moments, but it also adapts a war-boost to that mechanic. Additionally, it has a stalwart early game UU that is not resource dependant. The UB is solid too, adding happiness to an already useful building that greatly enhances the UA.

In what situation or victory condition does Persia not excel?

Btw, don't have the Babylon DLC so I can't consider it

I'm a big fan of Persia, and agree that they are fairly well-rounded, but consider:

They don't get any real bonus to science, which is, as a few posters have commented, one of the best ways to be versatile. Korea and Babylon (both DLCs) are monsters at science. And Babylon's UU (bowman) is amazing, so Babylon probably is the most able to adapt.

They don't directly get any bonus towards culture points, either (though selecting Honor and starting an early golden age could help you carve barbs up for both cash and CPs).

I have to say though, the Persian UA is one of my favorites. When is it ever not helpful to have an enhanced version of the Golden Age?

 

[Olleus]

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When you get very few golden ages because you are expanding vertically and/or horisontaly fast. In most games, I'll probably get about 3 maybe 4 golden ages. Having them boosted is good, but not great. Although if you play Persia you'll probably be burning GP more and timing them with wars. As such, Persia is good, maybe not versatile though.

 

[Silverfuturist]

I'm wondering what civ I should go as if I never re-roll a start: what civ best adapts to any condition, regardless of neighbors or resources or map?

This is an over-arcing question with no simple answers, especially in a game that is all about almost every strategy being relative to map size, map type, resources, etc. What I'm asking, hence, is what civ do you all find that you rarely have to re-roll with?

Myself, so far I rarely will re-roll France and Egypt.

France can go cultural in some conditions, and in others can ramp up to get ready for its UUs (especially Musketeer). With warmongering neighbors, France can use the extra culture on developing Honor. Because of the versatility of social policies in general, France seems to work fairly well, and on any difficulty but the top 3 I can usually win on the first roll regardless of map size or type. It also helps that French UUs require no resources and the earliest of the two has a higher strength than the unit it replaces.

Egypt, on the other hand, has a maintence-free UB that provides 2 happiness and 2 culture (happiness is always handy), and can pop out wonders quicker than anyone. Again, wonders, like social policies, come in enough variety as to be useful on almost any given roll. Afraid of a warmongering neighbor? Go Great-Wall or Temple of Artemis. Need science? Go GL. And so on. It also helps that Egypt's UU is very early on and doesn't require the resources for the unit it replaces, and is 1 point faster than usual.

But these are just my picks.

If you really want to get a feel of how each civ can be played, try multiplayer. The AI pretty much doesn't know how to leverage its unique strengths at any level, you won't get a feel for the other civs when the AI plays them. Other humans will do things with unique abilities that are instuctive, some just humorous.

For example, I didn't realize the Aztec's power until I came across 40+ size cities and infantry that moves 2 through the woods and heals 2 upon kill (Jag abilities upgrade)... now Aztec is my non-DLC civ of choice using the Tradition buff and Floating Gardens. Plus you can farm barb camps for culture by not destroying them, but instead posting a strong unit next to them and killing the barbs as they spawn.

Egypt... the pattern I see is that they build some nice wonders and a neighbor ends up getting them for free...

 

[NukeAJS]

What makes Mongolia so good at domination? Their UU becomes obsolete when you get cavalry, their Khan isn't all that great (just a fast moving general) and their Power is nigh useless (why would you want a bonus against city-states? Those guys should be your friends, not your enemies!). The only thing they got going for them is the keshik, and that unit doesn't stick around for too long.

I'm pretty much a Civ noob, but even I can see that Mongolia isn't all that great.

You forgot the part where the khan has Medic 2 (unique to it). So it's really like medic 3 a la Civ4 style. In addition, this saves a player from having to promote units to medic. Meaning 1-5 units which would normally get the medic promotion get blitz instead.

I really don't think that's anything to mess with. It literally means an army can heal twice as fast in enemy territory. Or it could mean healing 66%-50% faster while on defense. But if you're on defense as Mongolia, you must be doing something wrong.

 

[Martin Alvito]

IIn what situation or victory condition does Persia not excel?

Jack of all trades, and master of only the low-level Domination victory with Immortals.

The basic problem is that Persia is a jumble of abilities. The biggie is the extra move during Golden Ages. Three move ground pounders are a big deal. Unfortunately, Persia is saddled with a UU that obsolesces rapidly and lies along a bad upgrade path, as well as a late and expensive UB.

It's not that any of Persia's abilities are "bad"; in fact, the Golden Age-related mechanics are quite good. However, they don't come together the way that say, Aztec's do to sustain both aggressive and builder styles of play. Digging out a Persia player is not pleasant, but Persia isn't an offensive powerhouse for most of the game. At Rifles that tends to change in a big way.

 

[fmlizard2]

I admit, Mongolia is good. I once went on record as calling them a bottom tier Civ. Sorry, Keshiks are just too good. The only real answer to them (in their era) is a bunch of well placed Knights darting in and out of the shadows (past visibility range), and even that probably won't work well against a quality human player.

Most versatile Civ besides those already mentioned? I'll make an argument for Egypt. The wonder bonus works with any play style and is not map dependent - unless you really get hosed on in your capital. Being able to bend that bonus to domination, science, finance, etc. through wonders is the definition of versatility.

Plus, the Burial Tomb lets you build a solid, cheap, early base. That will play in absolutely ANY game.

 

[Roxlimn]

I'm surprised Russia isn't in here. The Krepost's ability to take tiles is a boon for any strategy, and Siberian Riches is pretty much just a straight hammer boost which can be used for anything.

 

[vexing]

russia can be really good but they fail at the "never reroll" criteria pretty badly with their tundra start bias. there's no guarantee you'll get horses or iron.

 

[Martin Alvito]

Russia's an excellent civ on Deity, but a good start is far from a sure thing. The civ is utterly UA reliant; the UB is less than great and the UU is useful but comes very late and obsolesces rapidly.

If you don't mind tweaking settings, one thing that tends to help Cathy is to give the world a 3 billion year age. Flat Tundra tiles are bad, but Tundra Hills are just as good as Hills anywhere else.

 

[qalsip1977]

Arabia is still my top pick. They don't need any particular resource or terrain to be valid, no UU they lean on for success, and their UA/UB is based strictly on luxury resources that will ALWAYS be available. Money is power. Most versatile without question.

 

[bhavv]

Inca.

Great Andean Road works on every map you will play - finding a mountain range is just an extra bonus.