civaddict1973
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2012
- Messages
- 3
I’m looking to move from Prince to Monarch. My goal is fun, and to not spend too much time playing. My style of play is thus a bit lazy. I hate micromanaging so I get bored with things like worker management, effective whipping and chopping, city specialization, and the SE in general. I cover some of that below and seek a few general clarifications on those fronts, but mostly want to see how far I can get without investing too much time in those things.
Before I go on, I must start off by mentioning I play vanilla. If that’s turns you off, I get it. If you are willing to assist anyway, great. Some day I’ll move on to BTS, I promise. But it is the difficulty in finding enough strategy assistance for vanilla that leads to this post. I don’t plan on getting into Civ 5. I tried it, didn’t like it. So I want to continue on Civ 4 until the new stuff comes out. It’s clear that although Civ 4 has been out for years, people are still playing it and learning it in earnest, hence my post.
I play random leaders, my thinking being that it helps to learn all aspects of the game this way. I always play standard world, standard map, standard speed. I tend to go with continents/fractal. I don’t like too much naval action. I don’t like everyone on one continent either. If I get a start where I am in the middle of a big continent, surrounded by 4 or 5 civs, I will reset. Ideally, I like to start off in a corner and build outward.
I used to always play creative leaders because I like the border pop, and to this day my early strategy is often based getting border pops. First I started always building Stonehenge (when not creative), even if I wasn’t IND and/or had stone. That often led to problems, especially when it meant I’d be avoiding Calendar and needed it given the resources I had. So often instead, I went for COL so I could get Confucianism and get religion border pops, building Obelisks in the meantime where necessary.
Both approaches, I learned, all too often ignored the map or situation I was in. Another thing I learned was that I was failing miserably at diplo given that I was always Confucian and my neighbors would not be cool unless I effectively converted them. So I’ve been working, again, on looking at the situation I’m in. If I could use my UU or resources to conquer a neighbor (or at least beat down said neighbor enough and get some good cities, one with a religious shrine), I’d go that way.
Almost invariably, I get control of 1 or 2 continents, wipe out 2-3 civs, and have a pretty good lead in all aspects by mid-game. I tend to not go for Optics unless isolated, and then only maybe. I prefer having Optic civs find me and be horrified to find I am far ahead of them in all other aspects.
If I’m playing a FIN leader, I am pretty good at cottage spam, building the right wonders, developing a strong economy and getting tech leads that way. But I really enjoy great leaders for bulbing, the occasional culture bomb, etc. so I kinda like PHI leaders. (yes, sometimes I just take the super specialist option). I tend to build Parthenon, regardless of whether I am PHI for this reason. But I will rarely do it if I don’t have marble or am not IND. I have often ed myself trying to link up marble to this end.
Some specific areas:
First build- I almost invariably build 2-3 warriors (or work boats if I have seafood and fishing) so as to allow my city to grow, and to explore, before building workers and my first settler. I may build a worker after my first warrior if the situation warrants, especially if I have low trade and a resource that can help remedy that. [EDIT: Clearly, I'm wrong on this. I have been corrected, so ignore. New approach: always settler first unless work boat in some cases, or if I don't have the techs to improve anything]
First tech- I never go for early religion, I usually go for Bronze early for slavery/chop (might chop first or 2nd settler) unless I have an early UU that is good for barbs and defense. Agri and/or AH will almost always be in my first 5, depending on 1st city’s resources.
Early tech paths- These really vary depending on the situation. I can’t really think of anything that applies across the board. I avoid Archery unless I'm Mali, or have neither Copper nor Horse. I like Math for the chop advantage, and often carry on to Construction for a Cat rush. I usually hold off on Alphabet unless I’m behind in tech but far ahead in other areas. I try to hold off on Iron unless I don’t have Copper, or if it matters for the UU, or I’ve got jungle everywhere. I’ll go for MW if I want Colossus. I may also take MW via Oracle instead of COL (or Civil Service if I already have COL, but don’t imagine I’d be able to at higher levels)
Pyramids- I never build them. Not clear why I would, even with stone and IND. It doesn’t feel worth it to get Rep so early. Doubt I would be able to build them at higher levels without falling way behind.
Early Wonders in General- I am not a wonder addict, though I get greedy if I am IND and have stone/marble. I almost always get Oracle, though.
Workers- Apart from early chopping for settlers, maybe a granary, I tend to save most forests for emergencies, or a rush at some point. I usually mine grassland hills, and farm grassland rivers (though some may ultimately be converted to watermills). Flood plains I’ll usually farm unless I am FIN, where I would instead cottage. When FIN I cottage anything that already has one trade. I’ll usually cottage everything else unless I am PHI (more food in GP cities), or the city needs more food. I tend save non-grassland hills for windmills, though may mine some of them if the city has high food/trade but no production. I never full automate but when most cities are pretty much developed I will set workers to auto-build trade routes. This helps me stay on resource development as borders pop, as well as putting in roads that I didn’t need earlier. I forget to chop distant forests, I guess I could do that if I have nothing else to do with a worker.
Religion- Given my diplo problems, I will now avoid adopting a religion unless I have the shrine spread it aggressively. I don’t like converting to a neighbor’s religion (who has the shrine). I don’t like that they can see my cities, and are making money off of me. I do recognize that if I’m at a (temporary) disadvantage, accepting neighbors’ religion(s) can help for diplo and border pops and happiness. If I have my own religion, I will get Mono for the city improvements and spread. I’ll hold off on Theo unless I plan to use it for the military experience and I don’t have the tech or economy for Vassalage. I’ll go to Pacifism post-conquest if I am PHI and/or have Parthenon.
City Specialization- I almost always forget to do this, being too caught up in whatever is going on. I generally use my capital city as a GP farm or financial powerhouse. I try to have my 2nd or 3rd city be a production powerhouse and build the Heroic Epic there. But then I get sidetracked and tend to forget about specialization beyond that. I’m not convinced how much this matters.
City Placement- I have read that I am placing my cities too far apart. I always tried to avoid overlap, but I’m starting to finally give on this. I’m realizing it matters not just for the economy, but also just time- the time it takes to develop. I also realize that it was part of my border pop addiction. I would often settle early cities with key resources 2 squares away assuming I’d arrange border pop quickly, and lose valuable time waiting for that, and/or ensuring I’d do what I need to get said pop. Feel free to chime in on that.
Whipping- Ugh. It seems so damn complicated. I know there are a bazillion articles on this. I need to go re-read the basics. I should whip after the first turn of production on something, right? There should be at least one hammer, but as few as possible beyond that, right? So if I plan to whip, I should lower production in favor of food the turn before I start production so as to reduce the hammers I start with, right? Whip multi-pop (ideally 3) because the unhappiness penalty doesn’t come all at once but consecutively, right? Whip big stuff first, than small stuff. And ideally time the whip at or near when I’m about to grow in size, right? If that’s all true, is that enough?
Chopping- Same as above. I need to better understand how overflow works. If I forget to have something queued up next, do I lose the overflow hammers? Is there a good or bad time to chop? How does it interact with whipping? I tend to time the chop to hit mid-build, after or before a whip, not at the same time. I may pre-chop, but usually can’t be bothered.
Diplo- I suck at it. I’m getting better at not alienating on the religious front. But beyond that I tend to have everyone annoyed at me once Im in the lead, and can’t get open borders when needed (for passage, spying, or spreading religion). Gifting to get out of annoyed, even when there is no religious issue, seems useless. I do factor in the personality of the leader, but.... sigh. I recognize this is an area that needs help if I am to level up.
SE with respect to Great People- I tend to focus my GP production in one city because I read somewhere it’s arguably better than spreading it out. Let the one city be awesome at getting GPP, rather than have multiple cities compete for producing GPP making it so that most of them can never produce enough to get to the next level? Beyond that, the micromanaging of running specialists seems daunting. I get that you want to adjust the kind of specialist so you don’t always get the same kind of Great People. An artist or religious guy might not be what I want if I want to bulb down the science path. If you can get an engineer to build a pivotal wonder, that’s a gambit worth going for, I get that. I do look at that from time to time. But is there any reason to run certain kinds of specialists anywhere other than cities where you hope to produce great people?
CONCLUSION (thanks for reading this far)
Ultimately I almost never finish a game. Laziness again, and maybe the lack of a victory strategy. I guess I’m going for conquest or domination always, or maybe diplo. Cultural doesn’t appeal to me. I basically want to be good enough to be far ahead. I figure if I’m playing correctly, Ill get ridiculously far ahead and know I am ready to move up in levels. My ultimate goal is to just win on Monarch. I have no interest in becoming an expert at levels beyond that. So once I get to the first or second tier of gunpowder units I tend to stop. I’m either pretty far ahead and too lazy to see the game through, or I’ve gotten a good lead but I am not convinced I am going to win because everyone hates me and/or they aren’t that far behind and it’s going to take me a long time to see it through. For this reason I am a bit lost as for tech goals past Democracy/Astronomy/Chemistry/Rifling, or usage of the various late-game military units, espionage, etc.
Is my lack of a victory strategy a fatal flaw that will me over on Monarch? Should I be playing through to learn the later stages better? What adjustments can I make to the micromanagement that will have the greatest effect? Some basic diplo pointers, please? Is there anything else glaring in the above that will need adjustment when I move to Monarch?
Thanks all.
Before I go on, I must start off by mentioning I play vanilla. If that’s turns you off, I get it. If you are willing to assist anyway, great. Some day I’ll move on to BTS, I promise. But it is the difficulty in finding enough strategy assistance for vanilla that leads to this post. I don’t plan on getting into Civ 5. I tried it, didn’t like it. So I want to continue on Civ 4 until the new stuff comes out. It’s clear that although Civ 4 has been out for years, people are still playing it and learning it in earnest, hence my post.
I play random leaders, my thinking being that it helps to learn all aspects of the game this way. I always play standard world, standard map, standard speed. I tend to go with continents/fractal. I don’t like too much naval action. I don’t like everyone on one continent either. If I get a start where I am in the middle of a big continent, surrounded by 4 or 5 civs, I will reset. Ideally, I like to start off in a corner and build outward.
I used to always play creative leaders because I like the border pop, and to this day my early strategy is often based getting border pops. First I started always building Stonehenge (when not creative), even if I wasn’t IND and/or had stone. That often led to problems, especially when it meant I’d be avoiding Calendar and needed it given the resources I had. So often instead, I went for COL so I could get Confucianism and get religion border pops, building Obelisks in the meantime where necessary.
Both approaches, I learned, all too often ignored the map or situation I was in. Another thing I learned was that I was failing miserably at diplo given that I was always Confucian and my neighbors would not be cool unless I effectively converted them. So I’ve been working, again, on looking at the situation I’m in. If I could use my UU or resources to conquer a neighbor (or at least beat down said neighbor enough and get some good cities, one with a religious shrine), I’d go that way.
Almost invariably, I get control of 1 or 2 continents, wipe out 2-3 civs, and have a pretty good lead in all aspects by mid-game. I tend to not go for Optics unless isolated, and then only maybe. I prefer having Optic civs find me and be horrified to find I am far ahead of them in all other aspects.
If I’m playing a FIN leader, I am pretty good at cottage spam, building the right wonders, developing a strong economy and getting tech leads that way. But I really enjoy great leaders for bulbing, the occasional culture bomb, etc. so I kinda like PHI leaders. (yes, sometimes I just take the super specialist option). I tend to build Parthenon, regardless of whether I am PHI for this reason. But I will rarely do it if I don’t have marble or am not IND. I have often ed myself trying to link up marble to this end.
Some specific areas:
First build- I almost invariably build 2-3 warriors (or work boats if I have seafood and fishing) so as to allow my city to grow, and to explore, before building workers and my first settler. I may build a worker after my first warrior if the situation warrants, especially if I have low trade and a resource that can help remedy that. [EDIT: Clearly, I'm wrong on this. I have been corrected, so ignore. New approach: always settler first unless work boat in some cases, or if I don't have the techs to improve anything]
First tech- I never go for early religion, I usually go for Bronze early for slavery/chop (might chop first or 2nd settler) unless I have an early UU that is good for barbs and defense. Agri and/or AH will almost always be in my first 5, depending on 1st city’s resources.
Early tech paths- These really vary depending on the situation. I can’t really think of anything that applies across the board. I avoid Archery unless I'm Mali, or have neither Copper nor Horse. I like Math for the chop advantage, and often carry on to Construction for a Cat rush. I usually hold off on Alphabet unless I’m behind in tech but far ahead in other areas. I try to hold off on Iron unless I don’t have Copper, or if it matters for the UU, or I’ve got jungle everywhere. I’ll go for MW if I want Colossus. I may also take MW via Oracle instead of COL (or Civil Service if I already have COL, but don’t imagine I’d be able to at higher levels)
Pyramids- I never build them. Not clear why I would, even with stone and IND. It doesn’t feel worth it to get Rep so early. Doubt I would be able to build them at higher levels without falling way behind.
Early Wonders in General- I am not a wonder addict, though I get greedy if I am IND and have stone/marble. I almost always get Oracle, though.
Workers- Apart from early chopping for settlers, maybe a granary, I tend to save most forests for emergencies, or a rush at some point. I usually mine grassland hills, and farm grassland rivers (though some may ultimately be converted to watermills). Flood plains I’ll usually farm unless I am FIN, where I would instead cottage. When FIN I cottage anything that already has one trade. I’ll usually cottage everything else unless I am PHI (more food in GP cities), or the city needs more food. I tend save non-grassland hills for windmills, though may mine some of them if the city has high food/trade but no production. I never full automate but when most cities are pretty much developed I will set workers to auto-build trade routes. This helps me stay on resource development as borders pop, as well as putting in roads that I didn’t need earlier. I forget to chop distant forests, I guess I could do that if I have nothing else to do with a worker.
Religion- Given my diplo problems, I will now avoid adopting a religion unless I have the shrine spread it aggressively. I don’t like converting to a neighbor’s religion (who has the shrine). I don’t like that they can see my cities, and are making money off of me. I do recognize that if I’m at a (temporary) disadvantage, accepting neighbors’ religion(s) can help for diplo and border pops and happiness. If I have my own religion, I will get Mono for the city improvements and spread. I’ll hold off on Theo unless I plan to use it for the military experience and I don’t have the tech or economy for Vassalage. I’ll go to Pacifism post-conquest if I am PHI and/or have Parthenon.
City Specialization- I almost always forget to do this, being too caught up in whatever is going on. I generally use my capital city as a GP farm or financial powerhouse. I try to have my 2nd or 3rd city be a production powerhouse and build the Heroic Epic there. But then I get sidetracked and tend to forget about specialization beyond that. I’m not convinced how much this matters.
City Placement- I have read that I am placing my cities too far apart. I always tried to avoid overlap, but I’m starting to finally give on this. I’m realizing it matters not just for the economy, but also just time- the time it takes to develop. I also realize that it was part of my border pop addiction. I would often settle early cities with key resources 2 squares away assuming I’d arrange border pop quickly, and lose valuable time waiting for that, and/or ensuring I’d do what I need to get said pop. Feel free to chime in on that.
Whipping- Ugh. It seems so damn complicated. I know there are a bazillion articles on this. I need to go re-read the basics. I should whip after the first turn of production on something, right? There should be at least one hammer, but as few as possible beyond that, right? So if I plan to whip, I should lower production in favor of food the turn before I start production so as to reduce the hammers I start with, right? Whip multi-pop (ideally 3) because the unhappiness penalty doesn’t come all at once but consecutively, right? Whip big stuff first, than small stuff. And ideally time the whip at or near when I’m about to grow in size, right? If that’s all true, is that enough?
Chopping- Same as above. I need to better understand how overflow works. If I forget to have something queued up next, do I lose the overflow hammers? Is there a good or bad time to chop? How does it interact with whipping? I tend to time the chop to hit mid-build, after or before a whip, not at the same time. I may pre-chop, but usually can’t be bothered.
Diplo- I suck at it. I’m getting better at not alienating on the religious front. But beyond that I tend to have everyone annoyed at me once Im in the lead, and can’t get open borders when needed (for passage, spying, or spreading religion). Gifting to get out of annoyed, even when there is no religious issue, seems useless. I do factor in the personality of the leader, but.... sigh. I recognize this is an area that needs help if I am to level up.
SE with respect to Great People- I tend to focus my GP production in one city because I read somewhere it’s arguably better than spreading it out. Let the one city be awesome at getting GPP, rather than have multiple cities compete for producing GPP making it so that most of them can never produce enough to get to the next level? Beyond that, the micromanaging of running specialists seems daunting. I get that you want to adjust the kind of specialist so you don’t always get the same kind of Great People. An artist or religious guy might not be what I want if I want to bulb down the science path. If you can get an engineer to build a pivotal wonder, that’s a gambit worth going for, I get that. I do look at that from time to time. But is there any reason to run certain kinds of specialists anywhere other than cities where you hope to produce great people?
CONCLUSION (thanks for reading this far)
Ultimately I almost never finish a game. Laziness again, and maybe the lack of a victory strategy. I guess I’m going for conquest or domination always, or maybe diplo. Cultural doesn’t appeal to me. I basically want to be good enough to be far ahead. I figure if I’m playing correctly, Ill get ridiculously far ahead and know I am ready to move up in levels. My ultimate goal is to just win on Monarch. I have no interest in becoming an expert at levels beyond that. So once I get to the first or second tier of gunpowder units I tend to stop. I’m either pretty far ahead and too lazy to see the game through, or I’ve gotten a good lead but I am not convinced I am going to win because everyone hates me and/or they aren’t that far behind and it’s going to take me a long time to see it through. For this reason I am a bit lost as for tech goals past Democracy/Astronomy/Chemistry/Rifling, or usage of the various late-game military units, espionage, etc.
Is my lack of a victory strategy a fatal flaw that will me over on Monarch? Should I be playing through to learn the later stages better? What adjustments can I make to the micromanagement that will have the greatest effect? Some basic diplo pointers, please? Is there anything else glaring in the above that will need adjustment when I move to Monarch?
Thanks all.
*Scanning wall of text* 
In English "I" is written with capital but "You" not so often. That´s weird
