Mr Viri's game

[viridomaros]

Just started a new game on monarch level. I set up everything random and ended up playing with the russians. I'm not a big fan of this nation, but i'll have to do with it .
I was quite lucky and got a free settler early on. That gave me more than a decent start i think. I have built two granaries and i have now 5 towns.
I have a few spices spot as well as wine which i already have access to.
I went the military way for science as i quickly discovered i was near the mayas on a small continent.
The mayas have both iron and horses while i have no strategic ressources.

I'm getting two options now:

-continue to rex and hope for a better empire later on
-Quickly attack the Mayas to size iron/horses or even both

i feel like the best option is to attack them before they can have swords/horses. The downside is that Mayas are tough to defeat in the ancient era because of their nasty javelin throwers.

What would you do?

 

[AutomatedTeller]

I think that attacking now is probably a good idea, without looking at the save. Getting horses and iron is pretty important.

btw - one very nice thing about expansionist civs is the increased likelihood of getting a settler from the huts, particularly on medium levels.

 

[Tone]

I think that I'd grab that iron just north of Moscow and then build some swords.

I'd make sure that I have a full map of the continent if I was playing this game and get some suicide curraghs out there. Contacts are important IMO.

 

[viridomaros]

i went with further exploration, developpement etc... i spotted that iron north of Moscow that i hadn't seen before starting the thread
I now have my army of 10 swords + some catas and i'm ready to attack the mayas

 

[viridomaros]

hmhm
i have given up, those nasty mayas.....
i was able to take their capital but they got it back with a culture flip killing most of my swords catas
Then swords and javelin throwers pop up from everywhere and i had to fight a defensive war. I was on the point to build another army in Rostov when this town went into Mayas hands with another culture flip

During all the war the mayas were building somewhat more units than me, they were building a couple wonders as well as cultural achievements i suppose. How come they could do that ?? they only have 8 cities and i have 16. is it due to difficulty level? golden age?

 

[Optional]

If a civilization hasn't had a golden age yet, then the first time its unique unit wins a battle triggers the golden age. So that is one of the tricky things when fighting an early war with a civ with an early unique unit.

Flip chance is mainly decided by culture and proximity to the capital. Looking at the cuturegraph - one of those graphs behind the F8 key - the Mayans have about 2 1/2 times as much culture as you, so the flip chance is considerable. Even a city like Novgorod, one you founded yourself, is probably not completely safe against a flip, so close to Chichen Itza.

If the flip chance is so big, you either want such a big military that you can wipe the whole core out in a limited number of turns, or you're maybe better off starting with border towns.
Anyway, if you're taking a city, the interturn after the seizure there's no flip chance, so then you can put as much units as possible in the captured city, but after that there's a flip chance, so then you would rather put your best units outside the city. This becomes difficult of course, when at the same time you have to fight a defensive war...

I saw you moving up to Chichen Itza with some 9 swordsmen and about just as many catapults. Not a bad force at all. I'm not surprised you could take the capital with that. But maybe you hadn't been thinking enough about the situation after taking the capital. Sometimes a war only really starts after taking a big prize, and your military was in this case not prepared for that.
This map situation wasn't so easy; locked on the same landmass as a strong civ as the Mayans. There wasn't a weak civ to take on first, or an alliance available to help you.
I have to say though; the Mayans spent a freightload of shields on the Oracle and the Temple of Artemis, if you in the meantime have concentrated all your efforts on building a military they should have been prey for you. Maybe you should have been a little more patient and built up more, after all, in 250AD you're still building barracks in half of your core towns. So it was probably a bit too early...

 

[viridomaros]

I'm reading a couple more strategy articles then i'll give another try to monarch level. I'll post the sav with the starting location.

 

[rysingsun]

It was odd comparing the two saves. You looked so good on the first and so bad on the second. I guess that is what happens when you lose most of your army to a culture flip. This never happens to me because I don't leave giant stacks in foreign cities.

What I would have done after the bc save is attack copan and chichen itza and raze both. If chichen has a good wonder I would starve it down. I would continue on only if the war is easy. Otherwise I would make peace with the maya and attack them some number of turns later to wipe them out. This would give you plenty of time to get the rest of your barracks up and running while making decent use of the troops you already have.

Rather than "making another try at monarch level" I would recommend you persevere on the game for a while more.

 

[viridomaros]

You mean at hte point i have given up?
You think i can make something good out of that ??
Well i'm always giving up too early so i guess you're right :
i have already started a new game as portugal and i have a promising position. I'm posting several save at different stage of the game.

1. i was happy with my starting location, i have been building two warriors prior starting a granary. While using my scout to explore the surroundings.
I quickly switch from a granary to rax once i saw that i was close to the Inca.

2. Succesfull archers rush against inca. Pease in exchange of a town

3. Another succesfull archers rush against byzantines

4. a fail attempt to take Tetnochitlan. Though my swords are now making good progress.

I'm planning to make peace with the Aztecs as soon as possible then attack the Americans and i think i'll be in the best position to win this game

 

[Tone]

Looks like a nice game. That was a pretty tough starting position with several rival capitals so close. You've done well to emerge from the fight in such a strong position.

I agree. Peace with the Aztecs will be very profitable. If I were playing I'd have a period of consolidation before stricking out further from home. If you don't get some settlers out there the AI is going to settle the lands you have cleared. You could also do with a greater amount of unit support.

What do you hope to get from the Americans? I've oinly glanced at the game but my first target would be the Incans as you could use those city sites and also relieve the cultural pressure on your own towns.

One other thing. I said about your map last time and I'll say the same again. You've played with a civ that has excellent exploration skills (seafaring and expansionist) and yet your map is pretty limited. Why not get a scout or two out there (plus maybe a curragh) to get a decent map, and maybe more contacts? Your scouts can get maps of your rivals territory so that you can decide the best route of attack and which towns have the key resources that you want.

 

[rysingsun]

You mean at hte point i have given up?
You think i can make something good out of that ??

sure ... you still have an excellent chance. This type of situation gives good military practice too

 

[Optional]

Just this point from me: your research path. I think that could be better. I see you've got a preference for researching Horseback Riding. You can easily get that one in a trade with the AI, so no need to research that one yourself. The Portuguese start with Alphabet and Pottery, so the best thing is then to research Writing straight away. after Writing you could go straight on to Philosophy, as Philosophy gives you a free tech to choose if you're the first one to discover it. I assume you're not aware of that, as I saw you researching Literature instead. If you had gone straight for Philosophy, you could have chosen Literature as your free tech.
Philosophy, if you're the first to discover it, will give you one other valuable tech to choose. The AI will only be too happy to offer you Horseback Riding, and probably more, in exchange for one of those techs. And the more civilizations you know, the more profitable trades you can make. That's where Tone's map exploration with scouts and currachs comes in.

A technique a lot of people are using as well with Philosophy is the so called Republic slingshot. That means: research Code of Laws first, then Philosophy. That means you can choose Republic as your free tech. Bear in mind that you're not allowed to choose a free tech from Philosophy if another civilization got Philosophy first! Sometimes, for that reason, it's better not to hand the AI Writing in a trade, because then they're only one step away from Philosophy. An expensionist civ can easily pop it from a hut, for instance.

Your war mongering is very decent though. What you can perhaps do a little more, from what I've seen, is make alliances. In your last Portugal scenario alliances could be helpful. The main tricky bit is that you're not allowed to sign peace while the alliance is still on, as that would harm your reputation. But you're going on well!

 

[viridomaros]

Hello gentlemen,

Mr Viri won his first game on Monarch level . That's the first time i beat the AI at this level. I'd like to move to emperor soon but i'll have to win a couple more games at this level first. I'll start by giving another try to the game in which i was losing to mayas. We'll see if i can reverse the situation.

Here are some sav files so that you can have a look about how i won and of course more advice is welcome.

I'll definitely pay more attention to the scouting phase in my next game. I had a lot of problems to attack the mayas in this game because of a jungle/mountain area which i haven't spotted.

The hardest part of the game was in the end when i had attack the greeks. I was attacking with cavalry against hoplites. Nasty hoplites
But i got the last word

 

[viridomaros]

to optional: i usually follow the research path you mentioned above. Though this time i focused on military techs because it was a small pangea map ( though standard settings, i guess i got 70% water) and i was near many opponents. I thought it would have been dangerous to rush republic.
With the "tech lead" path i have been caught once or twice without a good army. It hurts when you have to fight a war when you're not in good position.
The problem is not to survive but you spent too much ressources for little gain while others are progressing.
Here i wanted to be the first to strike and to take the lead in this game. The sooner the better i thought.

 

[viridomaros]

sure ... you still have an excellent chance. This type of situation gives good military practice too

time to have it a try


edited: i have played a couple more turns, it didn't help really. I lost a couple more towns. They're just producing too much. Peace won't help me, there just will be more culture flips for the mayas. They must have had a golden age

 

[Optional]

...there just will be more culture flips for the mayas. They must have had a golden age

They will have had a golden age, but that in itself doesn't lead to culture flips. Better is to put the blame on the Temple of Artemis. That puts a free temple in every one of their towns; huge culture!

Well done in your Portugal game!