Mules?

[Rodrig0]

Hey all!

I was thinking... isn't there a mod or something that adds a mule unit? Like a unit used only to send shields from a productive city to a corrupt one. Upgradeable to caravan with Engineering, freight train with steam power and C-130 (hercules) with advanced flight, maybe... has anyone seen anyhting like this?

 

[IvanDolvich]

I don't know if it is out there and I think that the concept was done away with in Civ 3 to get away from instant wonders. The human player did a good job of stacking caravans/freight but the AI didn't. I will say that it was one of my favorite features of Civ2. I also love the huge boost of trade that you would get when you brought in another freight from accross the empire.

 

[Rodrig0]

So my idea was nothing new... worse yet to know that my idea has been implemented AND proved wrong. But what about mules that only deliver regular shields, used to impove only regular buildings? Actually... that would be the same as cash rushing. Having a productive city producing wealth, and then using that wealth to rush a buiding in a corrupt city. Still, I would prefer the mule unit, if only to see caravans crossing my empire and some mexican arrieros whistling, b****ing and cursing the stupid beasts

 

[timerover51]

Hey all!

I was thinking... isn't there a mod or something that adds a mule unit? Like a unit used only to send shields from a productive city to a corrupt one. Upgradeable to caravan with Engineering, freight train with steam power and C-130 (hercules) with advanced flight, maybe... has anyone seen anyhting like this?

Hmm, there is a way to do something like what you would like, but it would only work between coastal cities What you do is set either your harbor or another building that would be a coastal installation to automatically produce colony/supply ships that have a fairly high value in shields. Because it is autobuilding them, it does not cost you shields. You stockpile them for a while, and then when needed, you send them to a city and disband them, giving a massive boost in shields to build something. You can have it upgrade to other things that move faster, but do not cost a lot to upgrade too..

 

[Turner]

Yeah, but that wouldn't work for wonders.

 

[Spoonwood]

Darn right it shouldn't work for wonders, you could build a ridiculous number of them via caravan rushing in civ II.

 

[timerover51]

Yeah, but that wouldn't work for wonders.

I did not think that it would work for Wonders, but it would work for things like barracks, harbor, courthouse, and the rest of your normal buildings along with units. I use leaders generated by Wonders to build more Wonders.

 

[vmxa]

You can rush those with gold in most governments.

 

[Rodrig0]

It would be an option to forced labor. Sometimes when I'm communist, I have many luxuries, but when I capture a city it will go into civil disorder because the market was destroyed. So it is starving the city to prevent disorder, or whip the citizens to rush a market, which will improve mood, but the forced labor will cause even more unhappiness. So either way won't work. Being able to send on a train a load of sheet blocks, beams and boards to build a market fast, would save many lives...

What you do is set either your harbor or another building that would be a coastal installation to automatically produce colony/supply ships

Is that for C3Conquest??

 

[Turner]

It should work in Vanilla or PTW as well, although it's been years since I've been in either of those two games.

And it doesn't necessarily need to be a coastal town, any city can produce a building that produces units.

 

[IvanDolvich]

I use leaders generated by Wonders to build more Wonders.

@ TimeRover51
Well, that is a pretty heavy mod right there. Creating a Wonder that produces leaders to build more wonders. A bit of a wonder fixation maybe, but I guess it could be fun once to have them all.
BTW, how many shields does your leader spawning wonder take, and how often does it spawn leaders?

 

[timerover51]

It would be an option to forced labor. Sometimes when I'm communist, I have many luxuries, but when I capture a city it will go into civil disorder because the market was destroyed. So it is starving the city to prevent disorder, or whip the citizens to rush a market, which will improve mood, but the forced labor will cause even more unhappiness. So either way won't work. Being able to send on a train a load of sheet blocks, beams and boards to build a market fast, would save many lives...

Is that for C3Conquest??

It works for Conquests as buildings can produce units automatically, I would have to look at the PTW and the Vanilla editor to see if it can be done there. I had not thought of it bypassing the forced labor option, but it would work. I was thinking more of jumpstarting a newly established city on another continent or island early in the game when you are low on cash. It would help if you were still in Despotism, as then you could put a lot into a new city fast.

I do have the Pentagon set to automatically produce Armies, which have a value of 400 shields. I have thought of using these to help get a city going that is inland, but I have not done so yet in any of my games. Nice thing about an army is that you can send it by ship and then it travels by itself on land.

 

[timerover51]

@ TimeRover51
Well, that is a pretty heavy mod right there. Creating a Wonder that produces leaders to build more wonders. A bit of a wonder fixation maybe, but I guess it could be fun once to have them all.
BTW, how many shields does your leader spawning wonder take, and how often does it spawn leaders?

I simply use the following existing Wonders: The Great Library, Sun Tzu's Art of War, the Heroic Epic, Newton's University, and the Military Academy. I have boosted the cost of the Great Library and Newton's University a bit. The Military Academy no longer requires a Victorious Army to build, so the AI also can get access to the Leaders.
I have the Pentagon set to produce Armies.

As for how often does it spawn leaders, generally I have it set for every 10 turns. If I set it for every 5 turns, I tend to have a lot of leaders standing around. Does help when I need armies fast though.

 

[IvanDolvich]

@ timerover51.
Lots of Leaders: definitely a Human Player advantage. The AI just can't use them properly. They will rush a wonder if available, they will form an army but then employ it with the same stupidity that they employ all their military assets. But frequently the algorithm will say, "hmm... no wonder available, don't need an army, ah! Lets rush this Library, etc". They will not wait two turns until the next wonder tech comes in like a player might.

So I don't think I'd try your free leaders mods myself, as I already have an advantage over the AI; the ability to manage my workers intelligently and efficiently, the ability to conduct war intelligently, and the ability to conduct an overseas invasion. Those are enough advantages for the human player for me. I don't mean this to be a flame so please don't take it that way. Different players enjoy different styles and enjoying the game is the point.

And Rodrigo: sorry for highjacking your thread. Like I said before, I did like that concept in CIV II but the mule/caravan is probably too much of an advantage for the human.

 

[Rodrig0]

It works for Conquests as buildings can produce units automatically, I would have to look at the PTW and the Vanilla editor to see if it can be done there.

So you mean training units and then disbanding them... I've done it all the time, especially with ancient cavs and frigates, which once they become obsolete, they can't be upgraded. Templars can't either, but they are ok for MP and to build forts. I only disband obsolete armies after I build the academy, as it is the only way to hurry new armies. What I don't like about it, is that it disbanding units only gives like 25% of the shields it requiered to be trained, so it is very unefficient. And who likes to sacrifice his own units???

And Rodrigo: sorry for highjacking your thread. Like I said before, I did like that concept in CIV II but the mule/caravan is probably too much of an advantage for the human.

Speaking of the devil... is that a pack iama in your avatar? Incas could build those instead of mules!

 

[timerover51]

Well, with the building making them automatically, you are not spending shields on the units to begin with. So when you disband them, any shields received are a bonus to you. Since an Army is 400 shields, you would get 100 shields when disbanded, which goes a long way in getting buildings up. Same thing works for any automatically built unit. You could do that with the Ancient Cavalry as well. Set the Statue of Zeus so that is does not go obsolete, and give the Ancient Cavalry a high shield value, then move it to where you want it and disband it. Does not cost you anything for the unit.

Side Note: A good pack mule can carry 300 pounds, including the pack saddle. A good pack llama can manage about 100 pounds in addition to what ever pack harness you are using. Therefore, a llama should cost one-third of whatever you have a mule costing. Then again, you can get pretty good wool from the llama, while all you get from a mule is fertilizer. By all accounts, a llama is better eating as well.

 

[Gamemaster77]

I think in Civ5 they should implement this. Have Acient Age carrier be wheeled cart. Middle ages would be horses, then industrial age could be Cars, and then modern ages would be trains. They should get about 80% of sheilds used on the city it disbands in. There should be a limit to the ammount of these types of units you can disband at one time. Mabye a mule or lama could be a special Asian UU where it gives more sheilds like 90%. THey should be capturable too.\/\/

 

[IvanDolvich]

Side Note: By all accounts, a llama is better eating as well.

Gack! You can't eat my llama!
Actually I chose the avatar because it is the CIV2 caravan icon: Could be llama or a dark camel. I remembered how much I loved using them for building wonders and cash bonuses from establishing trade routes. In CIV2 they would give you 50 shields towards a Wonder. If you had a Wonder available in the cue, you could use a bunch of caravans in and then switch it over to a 1 turn university or other high shield improvement. As a builder type player, I used them alot and they bring back good memories. (However, I will change my avatar to match my name when I get to 30 posts.(edit: oops, I just got to 30 posts. I still have to be registered for 30 day!! Oh well))

I think in Civ5 they should implement this. Have Acient Age carrier be wheeled cart. Middle ages would be horses, then industrial age could be Cars, and then modern ages would be trains. They should get about 80% of sheilds used on the city it disbands in. There should be a limit to the ammount of these types of units you can disband at one time. Mabye a mule or lama could be a special Asian UU where it gives more sheilds like 90%. THey should be capturable too.\/\/

I think the trains should be in the IA and Semi Trucks in the Modern. At least that is the way it has worked in the US. I imagine that Europe may see it different. It would be cool too to have the type of mule unit differ according to culture, just like the cities differ.

 

[Gamemaster77]

I think the trains should be in the IA and Semi Trucks in the Modern. At least that is the way it has worked in the US. I imagine that Europe may see it different. It would be cool too to have the type of mule unit differ according to culture, just like the cities differ.

I hust came up with that. I bet they could come up with a much better system.

 

[Spoonwood]

A good pack mule can carry 300 pounds, including the pack saddle. A good pack llama can manage about 100 pounds in addition to what ever pack harness you are using. Therefore, a llama should cost one-third of whatever you have a mule costing. Then again, you can get pretty good wool from the llama, while all you get from a mule is fertilizer. By all accounts, a llama is better eating as well.

And what about chocobos?