Multiple Empires, One Banner: Can it happen?

[Korias]

A few of my fellows and I thought to do a large scale game of FfH, to celebrate the end of exam week. We will be playing on the Planet Gen 0.68 mapscript, enabling a mapsize of 196x120 squares. Thanks to a rather potent processor (Read: 2x Quad-Cores), We can put a maximum of 34 (!) civs on the board. But in order to speed up the game, teaming is allowed with AI, but because we're all lore junkies, we cant really decide what Civs would have been teaming up with other Civs at the end of the Age of Ice.

We've decided that a player may randomly have 1-3 Allies, but what should these allies be? Would the Khazad and Luchiurp have teamed up to defeat someone? Could two Sheiam leaders ally to break the world? Could a house of the Bannor have converted to say, Esus, and allied with the Svartalfar? These are examples, but what could be a few strong or permanent allies for any given civ?

 

[Kyzarc Fotjage]

Elohim and Malakim maybe
Amurites and Sheiam maybe
Clan of embers (with order) and Bannor maybe
Illians and Doviello
Basium and Hyborem (bad joke)

 

[Korias]

Elohim and Malakim maybe
Amurites and Sheiam maybe
Clan of embers (with order) and Bannor maybe
Illians and Doviello
Basium and Hyborem (bad joke)

I understand CoE and Bannor, Illians and Doviello, as well as Amurite and Sheiam (If Amurites run AV), but not Elohim and Malakim. What connection do those two share? The Mirror of Heaven holyplace?

 

[Kyzarc Fotjage]

Malakim generally equal empyrean, that's what they are most associated with.
The Elohim, out of all the major religons in game, are Empyrean because Empyrean is about forgiveness and redemption. (Cult of Sirona isn't in game yet)

 

[Korias]

Ahhh. So, the current list is:

Spoiler :

Bannor

• CoE (if Order)
• Blank
• Blank

Malakim

• Elohim
• Blank
• Blank

Elohim

• Malakim
• Blank
• Blank

Luchiurp

• Khazad?
• Blank
• Blank

Kurios

• Blank
• Blank
• Blank

Ljos

• Svarts?
• Blank
• Blank

Grigori

• Blank
• Blank
• Blank

Lanun

• Blank
• Blank
• Blank

Sidar

• Blank
• Blank
• Blank

Hippus

• Illians (Tasunke) or Lanun (Rohanna)
• Blank
• Blank

Khazad

• Blank
• Blank
• Blank

Amurites

• Sheaim?
• Blank
• Blank

Illians

• Doviello
• Blank
• Blank

Balseraphs

• Lanun?
• Blank
• Blank

Clan of Embers

• Blank
• Blank
• Blank

Svarts

• Blank
• Blank
• Blank

Sheaim

• Blank
• Blank
• Blank

Doviello

• Illians
• Blank
• Blank

Calabim

• Blank
• Blank
• Blank

Infernals and Mercurians excluded for obvious reasons, as you cant start with them.

 

[Kyzarc Fotjage]

I would disagree with the Bannor and Elohim pairing. The Bannor are about destroying demons, enforcing law, and are generally very forceful. The Elohim are about protecting sacred places, saving lives, and keeping peace between nations. They just don't seem all that compatible, besides them both being good.

 

[Korias]

Adjusted as such. They could be allies should the Elohim control the Order Holy City, but I was also going off of the Bannor=Crusaders while the Elohim=Custodians of Holy Places, the Sword and Shield of any religious civilization, which could tie the two of them together.

 

[Tasunke]

Hippus could be allied with Illians (Tasunke), or Lanun (Rhoanna)

and third could be anyone with a large purse and a war fetish.

 

[TheJopa]

IMO I'd avoid teams and use Civ to it's fullest - its a game of diplomacy and creating history- whole greatness of FfH is that it allows history to unfold in many ways - whether Bannor will corrupt to CoE and team with Svart, or stay strict and summon Basium, or be more moderate and ally with Malakim and Elohim... Will Orcs redeem, or not? Will Amurites fall to AV and ally with Sheaim, or be good and be enemies of Demons? There are many options, and all seem viable...

 

[Tasunke]

yes, but lore sims are also nifty

 

[Monkeyfinger]

Since you mentioned the number 34, I take it that means you're using every single leader, not just every single civ. That in mind, here's a good place to start:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=263932

Personally, I would switch Varn with Arendel, and Keelyn with Alexis, but besides that it's not a bad list.

 

[Korias]

Since you mentioned the number 34, I take it that means you're using every single leader, not just every single civ. That in mind, here's a good place to start:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=263932

Personally, I would switch Varn with Arendel, and Keelyn with Alexis, but besides that it's not a bad list.

This is absolutely perfect. We're actually using Notque's Minor Leaders mod, which means we have the ability to place every civ, without repeating leaders. But this is absolutely perfect in figuring out who might ally to do this.

 

[Tasunke]

well, the list is 33- so hopefully you wont need to use the minor leaders

and I highly second switching the good elf with Varn. Varn is far more of a protector, and I would see that particular elf joining the militant goodies more likely than varn.

 

[Skitters]

You've got Svart as potential allies of the Ljos?

I'd have thought that;
Lanun and Hippus wouldn't have too many qualms about allying themselves with anyone - particularly if they can see a profit in it. The Balseraphs similar could probably get some enjoyment from allying themselves with most, although a Keelyn led faction would have close ties to the Sheaim and/or Infernal.

I could imagine the Calabim and Svart having close ties - they seem like the main shapers of the Council of Esus.

Perhaps an alliance built on mutual respect of brute strength between the Clan and Doviello

A Kurios / Grigori / Elohim love in based on tolerance (and the need for allies in a world of those less tolerant?)

A kurios - Sheaim love in based on Dragons

 

[Kyzarc Fotjage]

They could unify back into one court... (maybe)
The Clan worships Bhall, the Doviello seem not very religious, maybe they worship Camulos... Bhall doesn't seem all that tolerant.
Eurabates and Cardith are unlikely ally themselves with a nation that is trying to end the world and worships Abashi. Only if they turn AV

 

[Tasunke]

Kurios and Sheiam would never be friends ...

The Elohim is more closely tied to the malakim (except Decius)

Doviello are like ALWAYS the Illian's partners ... I'd see clan more likely friends of Shieam (Bhall and Agares are close)
and it just fits with the strong first evil archmage of fire (Tebryn) to lead the evil orcs.

Kurios and Grigori are definitely tied ... either a ljos or Beeri Brawl as suggested could work as the third.

 

[Skitters]

They could unify back into one court... (maybe)
The Clan worships Bhall, the Doviello seem not very religious, maybe they worship Camulos... Bhall doesn't seem all that tolerant.
Eurabates and Cardith are unlikely ally themselves with a nation that is trying to end the world and worships Abashi. Only if they turn AV

I'm not sure Ljos and Svart could co-exist again - too many big egos at stake! In particular Faeryl isn't about to go back to not being the dominant force in court.

For the Clan / Doviello I was looking at it more from a civ perspective than their Gods. I think what the civ does, and what the God would like them to do could be very different - particualrly as it's possible to adopt religions that are contrary to the patron Angel, so I don't see that what Bhall would want as being neccessarily relevant.

On reflection though I think things could go either way - I think that on the whole they could relate to each other in that for much of their respective societies might = right, but then I guess they would be just as likely to see each other as a threat.

Would the Kuriotates - or indeed any of the other civs - actually know about the plans to bring an end to the world? If they did, surely everyone should start at war with them! I was just thinking that the interest in dragons links the civs, but accept that that is probably a little too simplistic!

 

[Tasunke]

Speaking of Dragons, the best way to catch them is about 20 catapults and a beastmaster or two.

If its the Dragon of another civ ... a meager force + Chalid could easily neutralise the accompaning army, leaving the cats and beastmasters to capture the dragon.

But acheron is SUPER easy if you decide to bother with Seige

 

[Kyzarc Fotjage]

I'm not sure Ljos and Svart could co-exist again - too many big egos at stake! In particular Faeryl isn't about to go back to not being the dominant force in court.

For the Clan / Doviello I was looking at it more from a civ perspective than their Gods. I think what the civ does, and what the God would like them to do could be very different - particualrly as it's possible to adopt religions that are contrary to the patron Angel, so I don't see that what Bhall would want as being neccessarily relevant.

On reflection though I think things could go either way - I think that on the whole they could relate to each other in that for much of their respective societies might = right, but then I guess they would be just as likely to see each other as a threat.

Would the Kuriotates - or indeed any of the other civs - actually know about the plans to bring an end to the world? If they did, surely everyone should start at war with them! I was just thinking that the interest in dragons links the civs, but accept that that is probably a little too simplistic!

You should look at Age of Despair by Thomas.bergun (probably misspelled), it talks of how they reunite.

Do the Sheiam worship a dragon? I know they can summon one, but that doesn't necessarily mean they worship. With the Kurios, they are being lead by dragonman (trogdor!!!)

Kurios and Grigori are definitely tied ... either a ljos or Beeri Brawl as suggested could work as the third.

What makes you say that they are definitely tied? The kurios are led by a fairly obvious representative of the Gods, Eurabates. (okay, not technically lead but still...)

 

[civ_king]

Hippus could be allied with Illians (Tasunke), or Lanun (Rhoanna)

and third could be anyone with a large purse and a war fetish.

RoK... Doviello...