Civ 7 Is Failing And Only Radical Change Can Save It

[AD1730]

I cannot fathom why companies avoid it. I understand that there's a time and place to ignore negativity to beat the negativity cycle, but at some point you have to react to a straight up L.

Most large companies are serving their stockholders and not their customers, failing to realize that if they serve their customers they will serve their stockholders even more effectively in the long term. That's why they act this way. The problem is that there is a lack of long-term thinking in the current corporate environment, often because they are obsessed with near-term job preservation or jumping to the next corporate job they can find.

 

[Gorbles]

There’s like six-10 of you who consistently defend this game and a lot of it is sort of deconstructing criticism of the game rather than defending its merits

My friend, this is CFC in the year 2025 of our personally-chosen pantheon (or agnostic-through-atheist worldview) of choice.

Six to ten is effectively a mandate given active posters in any given thread in this subforum. Is that really how you're going to respect differences in opinion?

If Firaxis ought to accept the decision of popular opinion, why on earth are you immune? I thought we discarded the bad faith "hater" argument? Why are you relying on it now, when your own opinions are being challenged?

 

[sixty4half]

Sorry, first time I clicked this thread I got to "For the love of all that is holy...." and had to walk away. Civ 7 isn't life/death nor heaven/hell.

To not seem like a jerk I'll give your post a second chance and see if you have any valid gripes.

In response to "1"; I don't even know WTH you are talking about. You start off with the assumption that everyone here wants or needs an apology. I'm not gonna fight you so sure, apologize for a horsehockey release is all I can side with you on.

"2"; it sounds like you almost want to make your own game with your own rules. Yes city connections are a mess, need a rework and detailed description of how they work. You also have a valid point about being able to control where food goes but I don't think that ranks as #2 worst thing in Civ 7.

"3"; Me personally, I'm fine with how religion works. I think there was to much detail and importance given to it in 5 and 6. Then you go on with things that sound like they belong in another game. If you want to make your own game you're more than welcome to.

Stop asking for free stuff. It makes you look bad. Im not saying they won't give us free stuff, I'm just saying that you look like you're begging for it.

 

[misesfan]

I cannot fathom why companies avoid it. I understand that there's a time and place to ignore negativity to beat the negativity cycle, but at some point you have to react to a straight up L.

Because it takes a very large dose of intellectual honesty to admit one is incorrect. Not many people are capable of this. If you look at these forums people are critiquing your opinion because they would have to then admit that their initial impressions were faulty. Thats not going to happen. They will never admit that the game was released in a rushed, haphazard fashion. Firaxis knows it has some banked up good will with their audience. However, the game is demonstrably dying, and not because of the UI or because of a non-existent Civopedia. Its dying because its a rushed deck-building mobile game on rails which is core to its design. I dont think it can be fixed.

Edited for clarity....

 

[leif erikson]

Moderator Action: Please stop discussing each other and stick to the topic of the thread.
edit - Moderator Action: Personal posts removed.

 

[Skojardu]

And by what metric are we judging that civ switching has 'failed'?

Possibly a nearly 7% stock market hit the quarter after release (although it may be more a reaction to a delayed GTA installment)

 

[MutilationWave]

Civilization ain't even on the radar of the stock market, or as I like to call it, the vibes casino. That drop is assuredly due to the delay in GTA.

 

[Yzman]

These threads were tman just proclaims the game is a failure and complains about the game are beyond tiresome and I don't understand why he continues them. If you don't like this game, stop playing and stop discussing it. No new discussion is being had here.

 

[misesfan]

These threads were tman just proclaims the game is a failure and complains about the game are beyond tiresome and I don't understand why he continues them. If you don't like this game, stop playing and stop discussing it. No new discussion is being had here.

This is literally the meme - "Don't ask questions, just consume product! Then get excited for next product."

Tman2000 gave an ordered list of three specific critiques in his OP of specific issues he has with the game and how Firaxis may try to solve these problems. I think you need to argue the critique, and not the person presenting the critique.

But, I do think the debate has degenerated to such an extant that no one will ever change their mind or be persuaded. And that doesnt bode well for the game, because without any constructive criticism, it will never improve.

 

[MutilationWave]

This is literally the meme - "Don't ask questions, just consume product! Then get excited for next product."

Tman2000 gave an ordered list of three specific critiques in his OP of specific issues he has with the game and how Firaxis may try to solve these problems. I think you need to argue the critique, and not the person presenting the critique.

But, I do think the debate has degenerated to such an extant that no one will ever change their mind or be persuaded. And that doesnt bode well for the game, because without any constructive criticism, it will never improve.

I think maybe you should read the detailed threads where we discuss at length what can be done with many different ideas. People just get tired of certain people... I was gonna say spamming but it's not spamming, it's more just rehashing the same things that we all either already know or have previously disagreed about. Everyone knows who hates the game and who likes the game and who hate-loves the game (me!)

 

[ThERat]

I stopped posting anything, because all has been said and done. The game is a flop considering the history of civilization. You can personally enjoy it, but a great majority doesn't. I doubt Ed Beach will ever admit that his idea of a civilization game has finally ended at a dead end. It remains to be seen whether he and his team will leave Firaxis to ask someone to take charge of civ 8, if there is actually such a game.

 

[Cedbird77]

Perhaps he enjoys complaining

I care. I have not purchased the game yet and I love to hear the feedback. From even those who like the game it certainly doesn’t feel complete or worth my time. I am still enjoying Civ 6 . I have a lot going on and will wait until the game is more well rounded.

I have to buy it because I love Civ. But never have I been so unenthusiastic about jumping in. Although I am very curious . Because it does look beautiful and interesting

 

[MutilationWave]

I care. I have not purchased the game yet and I love to hear the feedback. From even those who like the game it certainly doesn’t feel complete or worth my time. I am still enjoying Civ 6 . I have a lot going on and will wait until the game is more well rounded.

I have to buy it because I love Civ. But never have I been so unenthusiastic about jumping in. Although I am very curious . Because it does look beautiful and interesting

It'll get there with mods or expansions. I hate to love it how it is, but I do. I hope you get to enjoy it one day.

 

[MutilationWave]

I stopped posting anything, because all has been said and done. The game is a flop considering the history of civilization. You can personally enjoy it, but a great majority doesn't. I doubt Ed Beach will ever admit that his idea of a civilization game has finally ended at a dead end. It remains to be seen whether he and his team will leave Firaxis to ask someone to take charge of civ 8, if there is actually such a game.

It ain't half bad with mods. For a junky like me it hits the spot, and mods will keep getting better. If you play come tell stories with us about your games, I enjoy it.

 

[user746383]

I think maybe you should read the detailed threads where we discuss at length what can be done with many different ideas. People just get tired of certain people... I was gonna say spamming but it's not spamming, it's more just rehashing the same things that we all either already know or have previously disagreed about. Everyone knows who hates the game and who likes the game and who hate-loves the game (me!)

I also get tired of people who don’t seem to think through their arguments, but I just ignore them. I think it’s better than resorting to personal attacks because the people who don’t think things through also seem sort of immune to any new information, they can always come up with a new evidence free theory about hidden information why they are right and it’s low effort to do so. It’s not really worth your time, basically, it’s more fun and interesting to agree and disagree with people able to have a more coherent back and forth. And anyway we probably all have a slightly different list of people who we think argue in bad faith.

To be honest the first post here had some interesting points to discuss, but a bunch of people who don’t want to hear it showed up to pile on with personal attacks. And the whole thing has been derailed since. I have faith the mods can clean it up, though, they are doing a great job overall.

 

[GeneralZift]

Possibly a nearly 7% stock market hit the quarter after release (although it may be more a reaction to a delayed GTA installment)

Yea that is attached to the GTA delay. The Civ7 release actually bumped their stocks by around 10-15% iirc. Fyi, more proof that whatever is good for the stockholders doesn't always match what's good for the customers :/

 

[aelf]

Well, I haven't seen OP attempt to justify his suggestions as the key to 'saving' the game. Just mere assertions that he is absolutely right. There's also no attempt to explain why the latest patch is a complete waste of time.

I'm not sure what discussion or "interesting points" we're supposed to be seeing. So far, it's just the same old people jumping on the hate train (and others pointing this out) when there's already a thread for that.

 

[leif erikson]

To be honest the first post here had some interesting points to discuss, but a bunch of people who don’t want to hear it showed up to pile on with personal attacks. And the whole thing has been derailed since.

I'm not sure what discussion or "interesting points" we're supposed to be seeing. So far, it's just the same old people jumping on the hate train (and others pointing this out) when there's already a thread for that.

Moderator Action: Please stop characterizing the opinions of other forum members or this thread will be closed.

 

[Lazy sweeper]

Crusader victory.... mmhhh.... that sounds familiar...

I get the OP is a bit concerned about the state of affairs and is trying to picture a safe way to push the devs to do better, without
need to re-write the complete roadmap, which had to be approved prior to the official launch...

We have zero idea of what the complete roadmap is... we can only judge what we have experienced untill now...
So I defend the OP in his methodology and I don't see anything wrong with it.

I am still wondering where have the scenarios gone, if they will make a comeback in the future, and if so when...
In the past modders used scenarios assets to make various mods.
A Crusade Scenario could unlock a future Crusader unit or even a Templar Civ... who knows...

A forum is a place for discussion, to urge someone to leave the forum because they argue is a bit rude...
Maybe you should leave the forum... if you don't like the forum rules, you should leave...
A forum is about free speech. The people didn't like the rule of Ceasar? They went to the forum to talk about it...
Ceasar is 2K in this Forum... Should Ceasar be considered of divine origin and only speaking its name cost you a life exile sentence?

What's going on here...

PS: A Big thanks to Leif Erikson, and the other Moderators, for maintaining this Forum sane and sound.
It is not normal to see almost more moderators actions than basically people posts. Tnx Leif again for
reminding the people this is a Forum and not a Gladiator Arena...

 

[user746383]

Moderator Action: *SNIP* Unnecessary. -lymond

But anyway I would love to hear a more specific plan from Firaxis on how they want to fix the game, whether it agrees with OP or not. It would be at least some sign they see there are problems more than UI polish.