Multiple Win Conditions?

[superslug]

The Hall of Fame currently has eight victory conditions, two of them based on score (Score, Histograph) and the other six are the in-game conditions (Diplomatic, Domination, Spaceship, Conquest, 20k, 100k). It's currently possible for a single game to be listed under multiple conditions.

For example, a tiny conquest might get listed under Conquest and Score. A huge milk map might get listed under Spaceship, Score and Histograph.

However, no game is currently listed for more than one of the six in-game conditions. We've recently noticed that some fastest finish files in the database met more than one victory condition. One example would be a 20k that also triggered Domination on the same turn. Currently that game is only credited with the 20k.

So, should fastest finish games that achieve multiple win conditions on the same turn be credited with each?

 

[punkbass2000]

I could be wrong, but I think the game only counts one victory condition, even when two would be triggered on the same turn. In the example, I would wonder whether the culture gets calculated first, or the territory increase. I would presume the culture, though.

 

[DaveMcW]

If we are going to recognize multiple victory conditions on the same turn, why not also recognize them on different turns?

I would love to submit a 500AD domination win, then milk it to 2050 for a high score too.

 

[superslug]

I could be wrong, but I think the game only counts one victory condition, even when two would be triggered on the same turn.

That's exactly the problem! The finalturn.sav's only register for one out of the six conditions because the game does this, and that's what the current HoF data is setup on. However, we have the ability to check for all six.

By the way, how long have you gotten away with a sig that long?

 

[punkbass2000]

Five minutes now. I swere, I tried to make it smaller, but all the sizes seem to be bigger than normal, none smaller. I tried to use a small font, but it's really annoying because after you change it you have to go to one of your own posts in order to see whether it made things bigger or smaller. It took me ten minutes of flying around just to get it as small as I did. Anyone know which of the available fonts is the smallest, offhand?

 

[superslug]

If we are going to recognize multiple victory conditions on the same turn, why not also recognize them on different turns?

I would love to submit a 500AD domination win, then milk it to 2050 for a high score too.

A highly logical question, and your scenario would have three possible outcomes:
1) By having gone over domination, you would have a tile advantage over milk games staying within Domination, if only even by a tile.
2) In order to stay under domination for the milk win, you'd have to reload/replay.
3) We'd have to treat the current database as "first" wins and create new lists for "subsequent" wins. The guy in charge has no intention of expanding the database in this manner as the Hall could potentially multiply in size exponentially.

 

[DaveMcW]

I'll take outcome #2.

Reloading - Reloading a save to try and change game events is not allowed. You may reload if the game crashes, you have started a new playsession, or to avoid Domination victory.

 

[superslug]

I'll take outcome #2.

And therein lies the problem. You wouldn't have avoided Domination victory. It would also open the door to players wiping out the AI on tiny maps in the bc's and then going for Diplomatic wins.

If I decide to do this, it will come with a rule and only one victory turn can be submitted per game.

 

[DaveMcW]

Since you seem to be against submitting the same game twice, I'd say NO, don't give credit for 2 victory conditions.

In fact, I would prefer calling all 2050AD victories Histographic.

 

[superslug]

In fact, I would prefer calling all 2050AD victories Histographic.

Do you mean call them just Histographic? Not Histographic in addition to Domination/Conquest/occasionally Spaceship?

 

[EMan]

In fact, I would prefer calling all 2050AD victories Histographic.

When the Tables are filled with ANY bona fide Fast Finish, there will be NO 2050AD Domination/Conquest/UN/Cultural/Spaceship victories......they will only appear in the Histographic and maybe High Score tables.....so I think the issue is moot!

So, should fastest finish games that achieve multiple win conditions on the same turn be credited with each?

This would be another way of getting the Tables "Filled"......so why not?

In fact, the precedent has ALREADY been set with the Histographic Tables!

For example, if you win a high-scoring game in 2050AD with a Histographic Victory, you will only appear in that Table; however if you win by, say, a 100K Victory in 2050AD you are presently guaranteed to be listed in the Histographic AND 100K Tables!

 

[superslug]

This would be another way of getting the Tables "Filled"......so why not?

Yes, it would take up more slots, and while I'd like to see that happen, I'm not going to tweak/adjust rules solely for that purpose. At first glance, recognizing games for multiple victory conditions seems fair to the players that achieve them. On the other hand, is it fair to single-victory games? Does it keep the competitive environment balanced?

 

[EMan]

Does it keep the competitive environment balanced?

I think filling up more slots is the SINGLE biggest factor to increasing competition......people like to have scores/dates to BEAT!

It's unlikely that a "Second" victory condition, that probably could have been realised MANY turns ago is going to stay in the Table for a long time anyways!

 

[superslug]

I think filling up more slots is the SINGLE biggest factor to increasing competition......people like to have scores/dates to BEAT!

Interesting point.

 

[superslug]

I sincerely thank the posters that have responded thus far to this thread, but three individuals don't exactly give me the pulse of the Hall. Am I to believe everyone else cares nothing about this?

 

[bed_head7]

Um, okay, one win condition per game.

 

[superslug]

Um, okay, one win condition per game.

Noted, thank you!

I'll see if I can get a poll attached so opinions can be given without the implied pressure of giving reasons.

 

[bed_head7]

DaveMcW's opinion is pretty much the same as my own on this, so I never bothered posting. Meaning a poll might be a good idea.

 

[superslug]

Just to be clear, I'm going to state the two primary effects enabling of multiple win conditions would have:
1) It would be retroactive to games in the Hall that achieved more than one. This is probably obvious.
2) The not so obvious one: It would create a new class of competition within the Hall of Fame. The staff and I and have discussed an award (working title: Machiavelli) that would go to huge map games that could achieve any of the six victory conditions in 2050. We're thinking it would give milkers a milk phase challenge other than just fighting off boredom.

 

[Bartleby]

I said "undecided"
While I usually expend effort to be able to satisfy more than one victory condition, It doesn't bother me that much whether it's recorded in the table.
Mind you, I've been meaning for some time to attempt the elusive Diplomatic win...